034 GET UNSTUCK AND THRIVE THROUGH CHALLENGES!: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 24

GET UNSTUCK! WOW! This is a powerful episode, packed with actionable takeaways to get you outside your comfort zone and in a growth state of thriving so you can Live All Your Life!!!

00:00 Icebreaker: What are your "gym superstitions?"

06:43 Atomic Habits An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear, The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business Paperback by Charles Duhigg, how superstitions and routines can help prepare your mind for the task at hand. They actually work because they can improve your performance.

14:30 Taking rest VS. flaking out. Is On and Off better than lower frequency but steady state? Is one better than the other at all, or is this an individual preference or trait?

18:20 The need for resistance in our lives (and our tendency to avoid it). The need for resistance is a law of nature. You cannot thrive without it. Example: fans in a greenhouse. PRO TIPS on how to maintain strong bones and maximize calcium absorption!

27:41 Learning is maximized when you're failing 85% of the time. It's the overcoming of this challenge that changes your brain, not having the satisfaction of having all the answers. If allowed to affect your actions, fear of failure leads to failure.

32:22 Managing the appropriate dose: Outside your comfort zone, but within the boundaries of an appropriate stimulus. 

39:04 You can teach yourself to ENJOY the discomfort. Listen to this section to learn how.

43:59 When fear or anxiety grips you, it's an opportunity for self-evaluation and an assessment of your values.

45:27 How to experience less trauma and be a more resilient person.

51:58 Some Pro Tips on having an amazing relationship: Have explicit agreements instead of assumptions, 100% honesty, forthrightness (offer your vulnerable internal thoughts to your partner), address issues IN THE MOMENT instead of putting them off, give your partner the benefit of the doubt in order to create a non-confrontational environment for honesty.

53:37 Incremental challenges can change who you are over time. Step a little outside your comfort zone and stay there long enough, do it enough times, and you will expand your comfort zone. You can learn to prepare for stepping outside your comfort zone and you can learn to let go of the frustration of challenges to view them as opportunities (even in the moment, not just in hindsight).

59:48 How you approach a challenge can be determined by what you want out of it. Do you want to maximize resistance in order to learn and grow? Or do you want to maximize efficiency in order to overcome and move on ASAP? There are reasons for both, but you can increase the effectiveness by determining your values around this particular challenge. You can also strike a balance between the two.

01:06:47 If you're not self-aware and managing your challenges, your expanded comfort zone can atrophy. 

01:09:46 You don't have to step outside your comfort zone alone. Recruit a mentor, hold their hand, and allow them to help you step up to the next level. 

01:12:27 A crucial part of change is self-knowledge. Assessment is key in knowing how and when and where to step outside of your comfort zone for growth.

01:13:47 Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less Paperback by Greg McKeown There's no such thing as priorities. 

01:16:34 A way of gamifying your comfort zone for progress.

01:18:34 Cody's Book, This section includes ACTION STEPS on how to implement some of the best ideas in this podcast!

Contribute to this conversation by hitting the orange button HERE!

Subscribe to our weekly Take 5 Friday Newsletter. Each week we explore our Podcast topic a little further in 5 categories: 1: Fitness Training, 2: Nutrition, 3: Relationships, 4: Personal Development, 5: Points To Ponder

Public Facebook Page
Join Our Private Facebook Group

Follow us on:

Our YouTube: Exercise Demos. Personal Development Takeaways, and more!

TikTok

Instagram

Many of the links provided in our show notes are affiliate links. These cost you nothing to click on, but greatly support our show! Thank you!

We love ALL feedback. Contact us here!

Transcript

Copy

Cody 0:16

Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh. And

Tali 0:17

I'm Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of Fitness podcast on the

Cody 0:22

Lyceum network.

Tali 0:43

Hey, honey. Hey, babe. Happy Saturday. Mm-hmm. and New Year's Eve.

Cody 0:49

Yeah, we, you're giving away our

Tali 0:51

timeline. I know. I think it's cool that we're well ahead, don't you,

Cody 0:55

I suppose. Yeah. These are Evergreen podcasts. After all.

Tali 0:59

Yes. So for those of you who are listening really, really far into the future, it's New Year's Eve for 2023.

Cody 1:08

but the information is forever relevant.

Tali 1:11

Yeah. Well, I hope that we eventually go over some of these episodes and elaborate more. The more that we learn, the more that we experience, the more we coach.

Cody 1:18

There's definitely a couple that we've already talked about doing even during the episode. Yeah. I think the Meta podcast was one of 'em. It was a long podcast, but there's just so much to explore and, and self ownership. There's a couple of big concepts that we definitely talked about revisiting.

Tali 1:33

Did you notice that we were, when we were looking through our topic list today, there was another one that pretty much paralleled the meta episode. It was something about transfer. Yeah. Which sounds a lot like carryover. Carryover, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that definitely like that. Lightning struck twice for sure. Yeah.

Cody 1:52

Yeah. Well, our in case you're new to the podcast, the. Whole idea behind this podcast is that Tali and I are writing a book, and so you are actually getting behind the scenes into the writing process of that book because we have outlined many of the chapters that we want to include in the Philosophy of Fitness, which is a book about the carryover process of the lessons we've learned from the gym life and training and coaching, and how to apply some of these. Perhaps universal principles to other areas of life. And this podcast is an opportunity for us to flesh out those ideas to include into the book, edit it Down, and you're getting to be a part of that conversation.

Tali 2:39

Yeah. Welcome. I, I like to think of it as our rough draft and a way of combining our voices through conversation, because I didn't really want a book that was gonna be Cody's section, T'S section, Cody's section. Yeah. I just thought that that would make for a really annoying read. And so this is a way that you and I can see where we overlap and where we agree and then see where we. Diverge in contrast. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So today's icebreaker, I had actually given Cody a little bit of time to think about this ahead of this recording, and it's about gym superstitions. I think if you've been a part of any sort of gym community for. Oh, a good long while you start to pick up that there are just some things that people don't do in the gym. And I, I would chalk it up to superstition. What do you think?

Cody 3:33

There's definitely that the first one. Do you want want just go into it?

Tali 3:37

Yeah. Like I would also wanna just like analyze any other oddities that we find, like other people's superstitions, cuz I can think of a couple that I don't buy into.

Cody 3:47

Yeah. Well the first one that came to mind when you mentioned that is that there are people who are very adamant about. Training plates, and this is particularly true in the Iron world, not so much in weightlifting, okay? Because when you have colored bumpers, it doesn't matter. But in the Iron world with power lifting and body building, et cetera, when you load a barbell, most iron is only labeled on one side. Okay? And some people swear you should have numbers in on the barbell. Ew, I hate that. And some people swear that you should have numbers out on the barbell and that there's just a right way and a wrong way. Of course, it doesn't fucking matter which way the plate is flipped on the bar. As long as it's in the right position, it's gonna weigh the same. It's gonna weigh the same, it's gonna feel the same. But some people are very superstitious about that, I would say.

Tali 4:38

Are you in any or an Audi who Oh, an Audi Me too course. Yeah. You have to be able to see what the numbers are. Yeah, I mean, I guess the size of the plate also gives away what it is.

Cody 4:47

It does with iron. But it's also like, well, people who say that it should be in you are in when you're. When you're lifting the barbell, so you can look to the side and see the number facing you.

Tali 4:57

You should not be looking to the side when you're lifting anyway. Oh my gosh, I hate that one. So you, apparently you're su superstitious then about that, say preference. You have a strong opinion about it, Yeah,

Cody 5:10

but I think superstition goes beyond just preference. Superstition is almost thinking that there's gonna be like a repercussion if you do it the quote unquote wrong way. Yeah. Special songs in this life or another. Yeah. Yeah. In weightlifting there, I can't remember. I wanted say it was maybe coach Bergner who instilled this, which I don't abide by it at all, but there was a, a superstition that you should never walk over a bar, always around it. Mm-hmm. So if you're needing to get to the other side for whatever reason, like you will take the long way around. You will never step. over a bar, and I think I did this unconsciously for many years, but I don't know, I just get to point A to point B as efficiently as possible. So especially in our tiny gym. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I guess, or, you know, Lorenz's gym in Portland. Yeah. That really overly stuffed, super cool power lifting gym. Yeah. You absolutely have to step over your bar. Mm-hmm. there's no way around it. It's so tightly packed. I remember lifting on a platform that had some sort of machine on the back and like weights on the sides. And so I was lifting in like, I don't know, two square feet of space. Yep. So, yeah, you have to make adjustments there. So those are, that's one that I've heard of, but I don't really abide by it. Do you have any that you believe in? Mm, I'm not a very superstitious person. I do think though, that there's, so the, I've read a lot of books on the psychology of habits and that kind of thing. I'm still reading right now. Mm-hmm. in fact, James Clear's book Atomic Habits. But I believe it was in Doug's book, the Power of Habit, perhaps that they talk about routines and superstitions and actually the value of superstitions. So sometimes sports teams who have superstitions. It actually helps prepare the mind for the task that you're about to do because you're associating a superstition with the task. Totally. And it actually brings up, you know, these certain dendrites are activated in the brain that are following the same pattern for the performance that you want to have. So even though the superstition is not real, believing it actually does help your performance. Makes sense. Yeah. It's an odd thing. So like, there's that scene in Rudy when they're all about to go out onto the field and it shows the team going through the hallways and they all like slap the fighting Irish symbol above the hallway and every person slaps it on their way by. And there's like all these routines, but those, even though it's a superstition and it's not real, Having those routines does help prepare the mind for the task that you are about to do.

Tali 8:02

Are rituals different than superstitions? Like is the superstition the belief behind the ritual? Because I have a lot of rituals. Yeah. But I don't know if I can back it up with like any kind of s

Cody 8:17

Well, that's what I was superstition kind of indicating is that like, I guess superstition is sort of like attributing some sort of spiritual aspect to it, if you will, or some sort of like external force that's getting involved. Whereas routine can be just an acknowledgement that I know I'm preparing myself for this task.

Tali 8:36

Why didn't say routine? I said ritual. I

Cody 8:38

feel like that's different. Well, same thing. I mean, no, I think it's the same thing in, in the context of what we're talking about. So like for instance, I used to before heavy lifts and I probably, I just haven't been lifting that heavy lately. But before really heavy lift, I would sort of stomp my feet. Mm-hmm. But, and, and take a couple of big deep breaths and really grip the bar. And, but the thing is, is that doing that, I'm also tensioning my body, like there's actually a nervous system purpose for doing these things. Yeah. Even though it looks very ritualistic and maybe superstitious even. But the truth is, if I don't do that, I don't feel like my body is quite prepared to do that one rep max back squat. You know, if I don't like, stomp my feet before I get the bar and that kind of thing. So it's kind of a funny paradigm there.

Tali 9:28

Hmm. Yeah, because I, I guess when I think about rituals, I think of it being almost further removed, like something that really doesn't make sense. Even though it might prime you to perform a certain way because it becomes routine after a while. I feel like the origins might not make sense to begin with. What are you talking about? Well, so. The evening before every meet, I would do the exact same thing. And you probably have witnessed it many times, but it was many year. You're Disney new cartoon. Yes. So So I would stop eating at around six o'clock the day before for weigh-ins the next day. And to keep myself occupied. I would watch Lilo and Stitch. I just really love that movie. It has a lot of Elvis tunes in it, and I just thought that that was like a comfort thing. But I would also wear a certain t-shirt every single time. And I've never worn this t-shirt other than the night before a meet. And it's in my closet, like I see it all the time. It's in my gym drawer and I think about wearing it, but I will never reach for it because. especially reserved for the night before a meet. It has, it says six for six on it. Mm-hmm. and it has somebody lifting on it. And six for six means that you complete six out of six lifts. Mm-hmm. that you're allotted in competition. And that is a great day. Mm-hmm. even if you don't win, if you go six for six, you've done your job, you've done your job well. And so I would always do that. I don't kick the bar either

Cody 11:03

to put, to move it around.

Tali 11:05

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I just have always seen that as kind of like a disrespect to the equipment And it's interesting because USA Weightlifting actually made a rule, or maybe I w f did. I don't know on what level this rule stands, but in the last. Five, seven years, they actually made a rule that you couldn't kick the bar on the platform. It would be like a penalty against you. Hmm. And I loved that cuz I always thought it was like, you know, there, like you were talking about like the stomping of your feet before a meat or before a lift. Mm-hmm. there are a lot doucher rituals that are out there that people will do before they pick up the bar. Yeah. That's just like a lot of, it's just a lot of noise to me. Me, honestly. A lot of bravado, a lot of bravado. I know that it serves a purpose, but to an outsider it's just like that's not necessary. you can like totally get the same performance without being a douche about it or like creating a spectacle. Yeah, I remember watching somebody lift and it was kind of early in my competing days and I was just kind of like observing other lifters and how they handled themselves on the platform. And man, there was this guy who used to just. scream like, ah, like, yeah, roar or bark. There was somebody who used to bark like a dog. Mm-hmm. And when you miss a lift after having done that, it's like all you did was fucking bark up there. like yeah, I'm sure you put in all sorts of effort to actually get the bar over your head, but, oh man, there's just something about like, I don't know, I just, I find it so cringey. and so

Cody 12:45

I guess choose your rituals well, early on, I guess once they're, I guess once they're ingrained then they become more and more necessary to get this.

Tali 12:53

Yeah. They're really hard to change when you. if you, if you have something stuck there. Yeah. Well, this isn't the

Cody 12:59

topic of today's podcast, of

Tali 13:01

course. No, it's not. But it could be, but it

Cody 13:03

actually could be a totally new topic. Yeah. But it actually does have, a lot of it does carry over to other areas because there are many people who are authors, for instance, who have certain rituals before they sit down to write. And those rituals are not related to writing, but prepare the mind for the task that they're about to do because it's become a ritual. Yeah. So yeah, I think rituals are important. I mean, I think that's, I'm not a religious person as far as any sort of organized religion, spirituality type situation. But I think that one of the values of a lot of organized religions is that they bring ritual to people's lives. And I think you're a good example of that. You know, I wouldn't consider you a religious person. But we do practice a few Jewish traditions here and there, and I think there's value to that in just recognizing, like Shabbat for instance, it's like, you know, even though we are not very consistent at it, I can see how it could be a, a valuable ritual to just bring awareness to like the end of the week, the a day of rest coming up, or, you know, whatever that is. Isn't that wild? You know, that, that, that lighting of the candles and a small prayer, it, it's like, it shifts your mind. It really shifts where you're thinking and where your focus is, and it just brings you in into a little bit of presence. So I can see a lot of value in having rituals like that, even though I don't ascribe to like a sky daddy, to, to, to pray it to

Tali 14:30

That's funny that you bring up Shabbat because Yes, that's definitely a ritual that's supposed to signify, you know, the entrance into the day of rest. Mm-hmm. and. I've always thought about Shabbat as a day of all these things that I wasn't allowed to do. like wasn't allowed to go to football games with my friends, or if I was at my grandparents' house, we weren't allowed to do real. Like we really couldn't do anything. You couldn't use anything electronic. You couldn't switch the lights on or off. You couldn't cook, you couldn't write, you couldn't cut your nails. Like all sorts of seemingly silly things that you're supposed to like rest hardcore and like pray to God. And now, especially this week, having been off and trying to lean into the idea of rest or vacation or whatever I wanna welcome that so much more to really honor like, okay, this is a day of rest and nothing else. You push that a lot more than I do. Mm-hmm. often you've said, I want a day that we really don't do anything that we have to. Yeah. But it's so hard. Something always leaks in the house, needs cleaning, some, you know, food needs prepping for the week. Mm-hmm. something,

Cody 15:41

something. That's why I usually want to try to schedule those things because it requires prep. You know, I make sure that my programming is done for all my clients in advance so that I don't have to rush around at the last minute before their workout is due. You know, that kind of thing. And, and the more you can prep, then the better you can feel about taking that break. So it has to be something planned and intentional in order to be restful because if you just like take the day off and you know you have shit to do, it doesn't feel good

Tali 16:09

No it doesn't. I guess I just wonder if like, operating at a lower frequency more consistently is better than having an on and off switch. the two extremes. Mm-hmm. feel extreme. Mm-hmm. all or nothing.

Cody 16:23

Yeah. I get that.

Tali 16:25

I'm always wondering about that kind of stuff.

Cody 16:27

Yeah. It's a, it's a tough one for me though, because I feel like trying to do a consistency every day of your life situation where you're never taking a whole day off kind of gets to be a little weary. Weary something. Yeah. Just knowing that there's always this thing that has to be done or whatever.

Tali 16:48

I did think of another superstition. It wasn't really long lived. I probably did it for a year or two and it might have dipped in since we got together because I still have a pair of these socks, I used to wear my coaches' socks during a meet. Right. And I think the idea behind that was like, Just trying to like internalize like what my coach would say to me. And it's like a part of them is like up there with me on the platform even though they're like shouting at me from like stage side 15 feet away, right? Yeah. But yeah, that was like a weird thing. My coach and I were really tight at one point. We were the same age and we had like a lot of sa like same favorite movies and one of those was air Bud and one of the kids has like Scotty Pippin's Orange Peel in his shoe And so we thought it would be cool to like, what if we got Donnie Shankles Banana Peel? Like it was a dream to have anything of Donnie Shankles at the time. Still is. But yeah, I think that it might have been born out of that cuz I was just rifling through our laundry and saw his old. I still have them. Sounds a little stalkerish. Stalkerish, yeah. Of like having something of Donnie Shankles.

Cody 18:01

Yeah. You want a little hair clipping or something?

Tali 18:03

I'm okay with that. like, absolutely. He's so inaccessible and he's the greatest of all time and so handsome. I hope you're listening. Donnie Call me.

Cody 18:13

So this podcast now that we're almost 20 minutes in, is not about anything that we've talked about so far. No, it's not. I've totally forgotten. But it actually I guess sort of is because we've, we are talking today about the need for resistance in our lives and I guess we touched on a couple of those things just in our conversation here. But I think that there's a natural tendency, there's a conservation of energy, if you will, for us to want to avoid hard things and. Hard things are necessary. So it's, it's actually a law of nature. I actually put that at the top of my list to talk about is that this need for resistance is a law of nature that we see all around us, you know, in a greenhouse. For those of you who don't know, if you, for instance, grow fruit in a greenhouse situation it's necessary to put fans in the greenhouse that is not necessarily there to circulate air or gases or anything that people might suspect. What that is, is actually to create artificial wind, because if your fruit trees are not exposed to the resistance of wind blowing around their branches, the branches don't grow strong enough to hold its own fruit. Hmm. And so you can actually keep the fruit on the tree properly if you have lots of fans in there blowing the branches around. And that movement that the tree must resistant against actually creates a stronger tree.

Tali 19:45

I'm so glad you started with that analogy. Mm-hmm.

Cody 19:48

So perfect. Yeah. And I actually had another one, which is a little different realm, which is astronauts. Once, oh, once people started spending a little more time in space, we realized that, you know, they'd come back and their bones would have lost significant density and calcium that would leak, you know, from their bones in space. And that's because there's no gravity. They don't have resistance on the bones. And even in the, in a matter of week, a week or so, their bones would become more

Tali 20:20

brittle. It's like being

Cody 20:21

bedridden, huh? Yes. And so, you know, those early astronauts would have to be sort of like, brought in on a stretcher. Oh, shit. Because they couldn't stand up, that kind of thing. And so, oh, I thought

Tali 20:30

we didn't see the right

Cody 20:31

stuff. We were gonna, it's like a three and a half hour movie, so, the solution to that is to create artificial resistance. And so if you're in a low gravity situation, you can't obviously run on a treadmill. But the way they figured that out is they just, they put these like harnesses on them with rubber bands that hold them down onto the treadmill. And so they're overcoming the resistance of those stretchy rubber bands to create an artificial, you know, impact. And so, you know, for a lot of the time, a long time in the eighties, there's this like emphasis on low impact, this, low impact that like low impact exercise is so good for you, right? And it, that's actually not true. You have to have impact in order to build strong bones and calcium absorption. It's kind of, I mean, I'm kind of getting into the weeds here, but like calcium absorption is greater when you take calcium in conjunction with magnesium and vitamin D. However, the greatest factor that determines your calcium absorption is impact on your bones resistance. So jumping rope, jumping on boxes. Boxing. Boxing Yeah. Yeah. Hitting, hitting a heavy bag. Those impact exercises that we were taught was bad for you for 20 years are actually really necessary for you to grow strong bones and to absorb calcium

21:58

maximally.

Tali 21:58

Yeah, I think that low impact stuff is, I think, more important to consider. Like if you are already in a position of. Like having bad joints. Mm-hmm. which doesn't mean you don't need the impact, you just need to manage it. Yeah. You can't eradicate it entirely. But, you know, working as a CrossFit coach, you work with all different kinds of people, different ages skill level and backgrounds and you know, everybody's expected to do the same thing or a version of the same thing. And things like box jumps were no exception. I would prefer somebody to do a very low jump, like onto a plate mm-hmm. than I would for them to try to match the prescribed box height and do a step up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Cody 22:50

It depends on the stimulus that you're looking for in that particular workout. And a good coach will understand what that stimulus is and try to modify appropriately.

Tali 22:57

Yeah. Mm-hmm. I used to always want to coach that way. I know I've talked to you about this, but we haven't talked about it on the podcast. I. Had always tried to squeeze it into my classes, even my very like scheduled and full of programming classes that really didn't give a lot of room for great coaching, but I really wanted to be able to educate my clientele or my classes, the point of these exercises or the point of this couplet or the point of this mm-hmm. structure of the workout and what you should be aiming for as a, as your, for your output as opposed to just fucking living through it. Like, this is where I want you to be able to speed up. Mm-hmm. this is where I want you to be able to put maximum effort. There's all these different demands that are underlying these movements that never get to be talked about. Mm-hmm. and I find that to be the interesting part.

Cody 23:53

Yeah. Yeah. I did try to do that in my gym. Probably not consistently for the whole, you know, 18 years that I ran it, but I remember putting that sort of in the coach's notes of the workout or on the whiteboard at, at the beginning of the day, like what the stimulus is intended for. You know, we want you to, we want this to be a 20 minute cardio burn, so don't try to do the prescribed pull-ups if you're only getting one at a time. You know? Right. You wanna modify those. Even if you can do 'em prescribed, you wanna modify 'em so that you're really moving for the 20 minutes. Cuz this is meant to be a metabolic conditioning workout, not a pull-up strength workout.

Tali 24:30

Well, when I got into programming, not all gyms that I worked for, let me, but when I did get into programming, I used to almost write them with those intentions. Mm-hmm. like there would almost be a penalty if you went about it the wrong way.

Cody 24:47

Right, like, like if you don't get to a certain number of rounds by a certain time, you have to do burpees or something.

Tali 24:52

Yes. Or like you just learn a really hard lesson. Like there was a workout that I used to prescribe, it was like a running Karen. So I think, what is it, 150 wall balls. A hundred and something wall balls. But anytime that they put the ball down, they would have to go run a 200 or something. And so, you know, people who can do Karen, well get big bites of reps. Yeah. Twenties, fifteens. I used to do, I think back and forth on 20 or 15, or I've seen

Cody 25:24

it break it up. Yeah. I've seen Karen Dunn unbroken before.

Tali 25:26

Wow. That's amazing. Mm-hmm. that would be ideal, but not everybody can do that. Right. But the idea was to continuously move if you're taking more. Oh, that's a whole nother thing. If you're taking like more than however many seconds of rest, like you're doing it wrong. Yeah. So I would put this penalty of any time that you put the ball down and so it would kind of teach people like, oh, I need to really choose the right equipment. Mm-hmm. for what my coach is asking of me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because when you're working in a class, you can make the suggestions, but it's ultimately up to them what they wanna work with. I've had very few opportunities coaching where I'm like needing to stop them during their workout to trade something out. It happens, but it's not, it's not the norm. I'd say. They just kind of suffer through their choices. But yeah, if it's prompting you to rest for a minute, you're not getting the stimulus of the workout anymore. Mm-hmm. And that was another thing that I used to try to implement with my clients. Like if I'd see a certain workout, like, do not let your rest time. 12 seconds or it would probably be less, but I had a coach who had told me once that you should take three full breaths on your break and that's your break.

Cody 26:33

Yeah. For metabolic conditioning. Yeah. Yeah. We need to clarify that. We're not talking about weightlifting here.

Tali 26:37

No. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think there's a lot of different other ways to implement these ideas and coaching that I wish were at the forefront more regularly. Mm-hmm. I think people would get a lot more outta their workouts.

Cody 26:51

Yeah. Well we have that opportunity now. Yes. Yeah, totally. The, the concept of this law of nature in the, in that we benefit from resistance and challenge is also applies to our learning capabilities. You and I were just talking about this the other day when we were starting our very first time on the ice ice skating. And uh, on

Tali 27:17

the ice skating. Yeah,

Cody 27:18

So we just decided to pick up ice skating, what, two weeks ago? Something like

Tali 27:23

that. It's been more than that cuz we've missed a couple weeks cuz the weather

Cody 27:26

has fast. It's cause of the weather. But yeah, in our ripe old ages of 30 something and 40 something, we decided to try. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What, 31? Well you're still 30

Tali 27:35

something. I know. It just kind of sounds like I'm more in the middle there. Don't you want to be I'm in my thirties. I'm happy

Cody 27:41

So yeah, not having ever been on an ice skate before was a challenge for me, but I had recently been reading in some books on learning and came across this idea that if you are. Getting the answers right. For instance, on a, on a test in school or a pop quiz or homework assignments, that kind of thing. If you're getting more than 15% of the answers right, in a classroom situation, you're actually learning slower than if you're getting around 15%. That's kind of a sweet spot. I forget what the percentages are exactly, so don't quote me on this, but the idea is that you should, when you're in a learning situation, a learning process, you should be failing about 80. Percent of the time, 85% of the time. So

Tali 28:29

you're saying that you'd be getting an F on every test that shows that you're

Cody 28:31

learning? Well, I not tests, I said like quizzes, classroom situations, like during the day when you're getting the lessons, I see, okay, you, you should be getting about 80 to 85% new information. Shit you don't know. Stuff you don't quite understand. And it's frustrating and it's challenging, but you learn at a faster rate than if you're being given a bunch of the answers.

Tali 28:52

So that's so backwards to how it actually goes, don't you think?

Cody 28:55

Yeah. So if you're given all the information up front and you're not being challenged let's say it's inverse you, you only get like 15% new information. It's comfortable, it's more enjoyable, but you also don't retain it as much. Sure. So in that, and having just read that right before we went ice skating, I was like, I'm gonna, I'm really gonna fucking challenge myself here cuz I want to just like hold onto the wall and go back and forth on the end of the rink where there's a little wall and But I know I'm not gonna get better doing that because that's not how I want to skate. And so I'm not gonna march forever. I'm not gonna like, hold onto the wall. I'm just gonna like, put myself out there and see how it goes. And I feel like it worked, like it was really challenging, but I feel like I made progress pretty fast in the, that first day way better than I thought I was gonna be able to do. For

Tali 29:44

sure. And we were just at a, a party the other night at a neighbor's house who one of the folks in the couple was a hockey player, and we were kind of asking them some questions about skating and I, I already knew the answer to this as soon as I was asking it, but I could tell that my desire to keep from falling mm-hmm. is keeping me from learning more. Yeah. I'm not getting enough feedback. Mm-hmm. Do anything with skating. And it's so hard because the fear of falling is super real. you know, it looks like it's gonna hurt. I mean, I've already fallen once. Yeah. I don't know. There's something about it that's super scary, but I think I just have to get over it if I actually really wanna get good. Yeah. It's like weightlifting. You're gonna miss lifts. Mm-hmm. if you want anything out of it, you have to be prepared to miss lifts. And I tell my clients that all the time that your commitment to your technique is number one, whether you make the lift is secondary.

Cody 30:46

Yeah. Yeah. Mario Andretti, I've already done this in a very early podcast, but it's worth repeating here in context. Mario Andretti famous race car driver, I believe is the one who said this that if, if you're not crashing once in a while, you're not going fast enough. Mm-hmm. Same with ice skating. Like, I think if we're, if we're not like willing to fall, then we're not learning Right. Fast enough or, so it's, now that I'm kind of past, you know, we're, we had our third experience yesterday out on the ice, and I feel like I can actually move around the rink now. Enjoyably forward. but, but it is really exhausting. So I'm o obviously putting more effort into it than is needed in order to just sort of skate around.

Tali 31:30

Well, we're not super conditioned. Like yesterday we were there I think for almost three hours where our other sessions were 20 an hour at the most.

Cody 31:39

Yeah. Well yeah, but I guess my point is, is that now I need, you know, I fell yesterday for the first time and I'm kind of glad I did cuz it's like, oh, that wasn't really a big deal. Wasn't a scary, maybe it didn't hurt. I didn't hurt myself. I didn't like crack my wrist. You know, I have all these visions of what falling could look like at my age and It ended up being pretty like non-eventful and it was pretty easy to get back up. So I It's cuz you're so muscular, baby. You know, like now I have a little bit more of a license to be a little more dangerous. Oh my god, if you will. But I think it's necessary in order to keep learning is that I can't just keep doing, like, I have to apply that same principle of being outside the comfort zone all the time or I'm not gonna be learning.

Tali 32:22

But it's also, you have to manage how far out that comfort zone. Like that's why coaches are so important because they're managing that. You're not gonna wreck yourself when you're working with a coach. Yeah. And you also know that about yourself, that you have a tendency to like do it, overdo it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well that's why you have a wife to reign you in and keep you alive.

Cody 32:43

I did wanna mention that to you or earlier you had sent something and now I've lost it exactly what you were saying, but I wanted to make sure that, to bring up though that. When we're challenging ourself or putting ourselves in an uncomfortable position you had talked about, you know, not overdoing it. I Oh, you were saying like for impact exercises, if you already have bad joints or something, then maybe it's not good. But I think my rebuttal to that a little bit is that you can start somewhere, you can add a little more impact than what you normally do in your day-to-day life. Sure. In order to adapt at any level, in any situation other than a bedridden, you know, person in a coma.

Tali 33:24

So, absolutely. Well, I would never advocate, advocate to just stop doing something. Yeah. And and that's through, you know, injuries that are chronic or instantaneous or traumatic, whatever you want to call them.

Cody 33:38

But I think there's a big principle here that we need to look at with when it comes to. being challenged or creating resistance in your life on purpose is that you have to find the appropriate level for you. That's going to be kind of like that learning level I just talked about where yeah, you're getting really challenged. It's really uncomfortable, but you're in a zone where you're safe or you're not gonna have a setback from injury. And that applies in the gym on a very physical level, but I think we can apply that in our lives. You know, I have, you and I have talked about this recently, how we've been pushing ourselves on some emotional levels mm-hmm. in our relationship and changing some of the things that we have in place as far as structures in our relationship, and it's been extremely challenging. Like really challenging, but also really rewarding. And you have mentioned about like, you know, well, we need to make sure that we're not going so far that we break ourselves. You know? Like, we don't wanna break something in this process.

Tali 34:40

Well, we don't wanna ruin our relationship.

Cody 34:42

Yeah. So I think finding that sweet spot where you're getting challenged because you're not getting challenged, you're not growing, you know, it's, oh yeah,

Tali 34:50

I have that written here. It's a little bit different, but my mom always told me, if you're not if you're not uncomfortable mm-hmm. you're not learning. Yeah. So the, the concept is the same, but those were words that my mother has told me my whole life. Yeah. And so it's kind of a voice in the back of my head that if I'm, if life is too cushy, like I know mm-hmm. that I'm not becoming. Better or different. Yeah. And I wonder, I've talked about this in our finances a lot, where, you know, when we've had to really scrape by and like really push ourselves or we didn't really have a lot to work with that some of my, those are some of my happiest memories with you because I felt like there was so much room to grow and when we've been really financially comfortable I just feel like that feeling of learning and achievement and growing just stops. Mm-hmm. And that's kind of true with anything where you're a beginner at something, you're gonna have all of this learning up front. It's like really exponential, like mm-hmm. you're gonna put like 10 kilos on your snatch like in the first month. You cannot count on that rate of growth, like Right. For the rest of your career.

Cody 36:03

There's a lot of diminishing returns. Yes. It'ss gonna taper off. Yeah. You bring up a, a good point that I wanted to touch on as well, which is kind of lost my train of thought. I'm gonna have to edit. Sorry a little bit. No, it's shit.

Tali 36:18

I have something. Maybe it'll come back to you.

Cody 36:21

Well, just a second. When Okay, go ahead.

Tali 36:24

So I think it's interesting that we're talking about this kind of rate of growth because you and I are a self-proclaimed novelty seekers. Mm-hmm. you know, we like this phase of learning a lot up front. We like the challenge, and then as soon as things get kind of like cushy, it's like, oh, okay, time to move on to something else. You know? Mm-hmm. like, maybe I'll pick up a different instrument or a different sport. Which is kind of challenging because I feel like you really will only learn the nuances at a certain level that I don't necessarily find myself getting to with everything that I pursue. Weightlifting I feel like is really the only thing I've given that kind of attention to in terms of expertise and having a bunch of hours under my belt to not only teach others, but to To use it as my lens for life.

Cody 37:13

Well, you can't be an expert at everything. You can't, but I, but you can be pretty damn good at a lot of things.

Tali 37:17

Sure. But I also think this brings into question like the, the idea of like range versus specialty and like being a master of none and being a specialist. Like, I just think that that's another layer to this idea of resistance, especially for people like you and I who crave it. You know, there had been a, a year this last year, Cody and I were both working full-time. Our lives were pretty predictable. We were making great strides and our financial lives, but everything else was kind of suffering as a result. And it. Felt flat, it felt really boring, it felt really predictable and as great as it was to have like lots of money to throw around and to be really comfortable and to have like routines going and whatever. It just, life was not dynamic. It was not interesting. It wasn't fun. There wasn't any challenge other than being challenged that we weren't together. Mm-hmm. and that we were tired all the time. Mm-hmm. that's not the kind of challenge that makes you grow. That's the kind of challenge that makes you a really bitter person.

Cody 38:28

Yeah. And that I remembered what I was about to say. Great. And I think there's two sides to the coin as there often are. Okay. Well there's three sides to a coin, but we'll get into that later. Idea that we can reframe discomfort. So I once told a client when I was on my weight loss journey, which I, I'm not a big proponent of the whole idea of weight loss as a primary goal, but sometimes you gotta start somewhere with some metric and well,

Tali 38:57

and sometimes that's super necessary. Like there are some people who need to address that immediately. Yeah.

Cody 39:04

And I was pretty sickly in about 235 pounds, I think, at my heaviest and my, so weight loss was my primary focus for a little while there. And yeah, I got to a point where being a little bit hungry felt good. because Interesting. I knew that I needed to reduce my intake and being a little bit hungry made me feel like I was doing it. I was in the game, I was making progress. It being hungry felt like progress. So I literally began to associate the feeling of being a little bit hungry with a good feeling. Whereas, you know, if people are used to satiating themselves all the time, oh, I'm a little hungry. Let me just wander over to the fridge and see what's available and you know, or have snacks at work and you know, have constant grazing mentality because they've been told that that's good for you or whatever, and they're perhaps overweight and then they try to quote unquote go on a diet and they feel all restricted and it just feels like fucking misery, you know, trying to like be hungry and. Oftentimes we try to counsel our clients. You know, like we don't want you to feel completely deprived. We want you to be able to indulge in like an alcoholic beverage once in a while, or a cookie or whatever. We're not trying to restrict

Tali 40:26

you. one cookie. Are you kidding me? Does it ever stop with one cookie?

Cody 40:30

But you know, we try to teach moderation as an approach rather than abstinence.

Tali 40:36

Like Shabbat

Cody 40:37

and not Shabbat. Yeah, But I guess my point is, is that there is another way besides just looking at it as like, oh, I'm deprived, or, oh, I'm satisfied, is that you can begin to reframe your thinking around something so that you know that that challenge of feeling hungry or shit, this barbell is really heavy. in our relationship, this kind of, I'm, this is kind of like hurting, like I have a little bit of a pit in my stomach right now. You can start to associate those quote unquote negative feelings with a knowledge of growth. And then it starts to change literally the way it feels. Yeah. Like all of a sudden hunger feels a little good. Like it feels good to be a little bit hungry. It feels good to like struggle with this weight just a little bit. It feels good to be emotionally challenged. It's a little bit hard for me to describe, but there's, it'll feel good to fall. There's, yeah. And there's, so there's a way of reframing this, and this is how I think of self-discipline too. I, I kind of despise the whole, there's kind of an over-emphasis with. Famous people right now who are like on the internet saying, you should be more self-disciplined and grit and disciplined grit. You know, it's like, God, dig deep, you weakling, you know, like buck up, you, you know, like piece of crap. You know? And it's like, well, do they have a military background, Yeah. Yes. In fact they do. But there's a different way to reframe that where you can learn that those uncomfortable moments can actually become exhilarating. Like, yes, you crave it. I love that

Tali 42:16

you said exhilarating. Yes.

Cody 42:17

And it's not, it's not that you're having to dig deep and, and, and be and, and ex exhibit grit in all these kind of words. It's not like that. It's that you've reframed it so that you actually know that the challenge that you're feeling is good and the outcome is good, and so you begin to actually seek it. You actually want it seeking it. Yes. Is not something that you're having to like endure. It's something that you're enjoying because you know that that means progress.

Tali 42:48

So this is another thing that my mother also taught me at a young age. And when I say young, I mean like probably high school where I definitely don't think I internalized it at the time, but it's true. If you hear something often enough, you're gonna, you're gonna kind of approach it with curiosity and maybe try it out. But she would always tell me to like, greet challenges with a smile or with excitement. Mm-hmm. And she would also tell me that if I had a lot of nervousness or anxiety around something, it's because it's something that matters to me. Mm-hmm. And so rather than seeing things that were anxiety inducing as bad, and things that didn't challenge me as good, then then I could interact with them in a way that could have a very. Surprising outcome. And I think that that's a really important dynamic to observe and to think about that the things that are anxiety inducing are things that matter to us, and that is a opportunity for assessment of whether that value should stick around with us or not. You know, I'm thinking about an upcoming endeavor that I have going on. I've signed up just kind of willy-nilly to do nude modeling for a figure drawing class in town. Mm-hmm. And I didn't really get nervous about it until you were like, you remember we live in a small town, you're probably gonna know everybody in that class. And then I start to think like, oh, like, will I even physically be able to take off my robe in that situation? I don't know. But I am thinking about, okay, why does this make me nervous? and a lot of that is like judgment for my body or well I guess it's just judgment for my body. Mm-hmm. it just kind of ends there and I have to think about like, why, why is that still nagging at me? And then that's when I really get to assess like, is that something that I still want to hold me back? Cuz I don't, I don't really wanna be that person and I have the choice and resources available to me to not be that person anymore. But maybe a younger version of myself who didn't really think about challenge as a good thing for me. And always wanting to, you know, ha have self-preservation. Mm-hmm. as a top priority. I would've thought, this is dangerous for me. Why would I put myself in that situation? Mm-hmm. I wouldn't see value in it. Where now I could see it as this is probably gonna help me. love my body more because art is gonna be created out of

Cody 45:26

it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the one way, you know, you've associated it with age, but there's also this idea that I wanted to really emphasize today, which is that if you constantly avoid discomfort, then you will be in a weaker position when challenges come at you. In other words, if you choose to challenge yourself regularly, then you will be more resilient when unexpected challenges come your way. Cuz they always will like, yeah, life is fucking challenging. That's how life go, you know, life. Nobody gets to sail through and. There. I think there's this, there's a strange emphasis in today's world in that this has gone for a couple generations now. Like, you know these participation trophy kids, who, and I was in the first generation of that, you know, I remember getting like a, oh man. So I, since I was like the first generation of this, I kind of knew it was bullshit. Even as a second grader, I remember being like in the first grade, second grade and running a race and getting a ribbon that was like seventh place ribbon. There were only seven fucking kids in the race. And I'm like, this isn't feel good. This isn't even at that young age, I knew this was bullshit. I'm like, this is bullshit. This, if this was a competition and I get a placement and a ribbon for it, like this, this ribbon. Is like, look, you came in last. Like it felt like shit. You know? Wouldn't

Tali 47:02

it be so much nicer to be in like a pool of losers rather than like the loser Well that's so mean. Yeah. Like there's first, second and third and then everybody else just didn't podium. Right? Yeah. But

Cody 47:14

they were trying to be all they podium inclusive and everything. Yeah. And so that's so funny. They such a backfire. Yeah. And then I think later on it kind of did turn into that where like everybody gets a participation ribbon. Even the person who came in first, you know, and it's like there are no winners and losers. You know, this kind of real coddling of kids has created adults who are constantly comfort seeking. Constantly. Constantly comfort. Comfort seeking, avoiding challenge, avoid. Like the word hierarchy has become this evil word and hierarchy is a natural aspect of the universe. Sorry. But things are just arranged in certain ways. And I'm not promoting government hierarchy or patriarchal hierarchies or anything like that. I'm just saying that people are part of the universe, the natural world, and the natural world is organized. That's just the way it is. And so we can either become more resilient by practicing challenging situations, finding our place in the world, acknowledging what that place is, maybe making efforts to change our place in the world, or we can take a coddling approach where we're just constantly comfort seeking and it makes people so weak that they feel traumatized by the littlest challenge in their life. Like something very. small to one person's perspective can be incredibly traumatic to another person. And I think, well, trauma is

Tali 48:45

definitely relative, but you also, it's not just like you've been dealt a card. Like you have a lot to do with that spectrum there. Yeah. By exposing yourself.

Cody 48:57

Right. And so if you, like, because my point is, is that if you expose yourself intentionally to challenging situations, you'll be more resilient and less likely to experience trauma. And this is what really, it really relates to what you were just talking about a while back with like box jumps in somebody who has bad joints or something like that. When we see traumatic injuries in the gym, that's because people are doing something that they did not condition themselves for. Usually not, not always, but a lot of times there are freak accidents. Yeah, there are. A lot of times I would tell people like, well this training did not injure you. It revealed something that was already a problem when you came in here and you didn't know about it, cuz you never challenged yourself. You know, like if you're having knee pain the very first time you squat it, it's probably not the squat that's causing that. Cuz this is the first time you've ever done it. Like there was something going on before you just never exposed it because you never challenge yourself. Right. You're turning stones. Yeah. And so my point is, is that we can avoid trauma, whether that's emotional trauma or physical trauma or whatever, or trauma to a relationship. We can avoid trauma by conditioning ourselves to be more resilient rather than. Being avoidant of challenge and, and controversy or discomfort.

Tali 50:17

Yes. And I think a word that comes to mind with all the things that you're saying is potential. And I am definitely somebody who wants to bump up against those edges of my potential. Mm-hmm. I wanna see what I'm capable of. And that's what's been so magical about my weightlifting experience for sure. And you were just saying, we were just talking about like kind of stones that could be left unturned as a way of thinking about that lack of exposure. And I think about relationships where like things are just swept under the rug at all costs. We're trying to put on a happy face. Conflict avoidance. Conflict avoidance, trying to hide things from the kids. And then, you know, things are imploding on the inside. Just because it isn't brought to the surface doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's a really messed up way. Mm-hmm. to be going about life. Mm-hmm. And that's what's been so incredible about practicing honesty all the time, or at all costs because it at least like, gives life to those things. Like you can interact with them. If you put them out there, you're not at the mercy of them anymore. Mm-hmm. I would imagine that in a situ if you and I were keeping everything from each other and just being like, oh, everything's fine. Mm-hmm. when things are not, you know, that's when like little things start to get to me or bother me or I start to get angry at things. Mm-hmm. and that's something that we get to choose for ourselves. Like you are not at the mercy of anyone else to who gets to decide other than you of like what you wanna bring to the light. Mm-hmm.

Cody 51:57

Yeah, for if you're listening and you're, you haven't been exposed to some of the ideas that t and I talk about in our relationship and what we feel has made it so amazing. In part of course there's like initial compatibility, which has been amazing, like, I think we'd be amazing together even if we hadn't articulated some of these things. But early on we actually articulated and, and made agreements, like explicit agreements around the ideas of being completely honest at all times and forthright, which means that honesty does not just mean we're waiting for the other person to ask the right question. Forthrightness means we bring things to the table even

Tali 52:36

if the timing is inconvenient. Yeah. Even if you're in a crap mood. Yeah. Even if not, you're not at your best.

Cody 52:41

Yeah. And even if it's something you're ashamed of Yes. Or, you know, embarrassed by or whatever it is, like the, we're gonna bring it up. We're not gonna hide things. And the third concept is as soon as possible, which is what you just touched on, like, it doesn't matter if it's convenient, we're gonna bring this to the surface as, as soon as possible in order. Avoid resentment and creating a space where we know we can do that also involves giving the other person the benefit of the doubt that we, we know that we have each other's interests at heart and we care about the other person. And so even if we bring up something that seems like it in a different context, that it could be accusatory or something like that, we're gonna not get, we're not gonna jump to the defense because we understand that the whole idea of bringing something uncomfortable up is for, is in the interest of us having a better

Tali 53:36

relationship. Yes. And that's exposing yourself to risk. Like it can feel really risky in the moment. Yeah. To tell you what I'm really thinking, especially like this morning, I was feeling so crabby about all kinds of things. Mm-hmm. and. you know, have a moment before I say anything to be like, well this can wait. I should probably eat something. I should probably wait until after we've done the podcast, cuz I'll be on a high mm-hmm. And so just like anything else that we've talked about, like we are exposing ourselves to potential risk, but there's something that you start to crave about that because you're going to get something out of it. You're gonna be different because of it. And that's fucking fun. I enjoy that. I really do. Yeah. I mean, there are things about ourselves that are probably gonna be consistent for our whole lives, but to feel like a different person in the same body that I've had my whole life. Mm-hmm. is really cool. Yeah. In terms of like dealing with social situations or whatever, like I can look back on my teenage years still. In a fresh way. It wasn't that long ago, but I just remember being fucking terrified in my own skin. Mm-hmm. and not knowing how to act and not knowing what to say. And that self-preservation, like it kept me from living, it kept me from doing so much and experiencing so much. Mm-hmm. And I just think it's a gift. I think it's a gift to expose yourself to all kinds of challenges. Yeah. Whether they're emotional, physical

Cody 55:11

mental. Yeah. And it's a forever pursuit because every, the more time you spend outside your comfort zone, the greater your comfort zone becomes. Yes. Like if you step out four inches from your comfort zone, well now you're four, you spend enough time out there, and pretty soon your comfort zone has expanded by four inches. I've wondered if you gotta step out a little more, you know, and you gotta keep that challenge. This is kind of what I was trying to get to with the ice skating thing, is like, well now I'm, I've challenged myself pretty hard in these last, in the first two sessions, but yesterday I kind of feel like I, I fell because I started to challenge myself a little more. You

Tali 55:51

fell because you were celebrating not falling, not falling, But that wasn't the first

Cody 55:56

time. So funny. It wasn't, that was the first time. The first time I fell was I turned really sharp and I was like, oh, my skate just sort of dug into the ice. I didn't realize that was gonna happen. So my point is, is that I have to keep. That I have a new comfort zone now. Like I, so now I really need to make sure that I go out there with the mindset that, okay, I know I'm gonna push outside that comfort zone. I'm gonna, I gotta find a new skill that I want to try to challenge myself with today. Otherwise I'm just gonna be forever the same type of skater, sort of wobbling around in circles. and

Tali 56:27

we had a, an entire podcast on episode on this the other week about warming up. Mm-hmm. you can absolutely prepare yourself in ways that are going to make expanding your comfort zone less frightening. Mm-hmm. I'm thinking about what can I do between now and February that's gonna make getting naked in front of a group of people who are gonna draw me more comfortable. So I was thinking we should go to the Josephy Center. Let me see where I'm going. Yeah. And have an idea of like what environment, what the setup is. Yeah. Oh yeah. Or you know, I've talked about practicing poses ahead of time. Mm-hmm. to make sure that. I have ideas to draw upon to you know, build up some stamina, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. I don't know if there's anything else that I can add to it, but you can definitely kind of soften the blow a little bit. If you remember when we were watching those YouTube videos on skating, she said, practice falling, right? Because you have to practice skating up. Mm-hmm. And one thing I wanted to mention is it's a very relevant example or story I guess about a skater named Elvis Toko, who I wanna say was a Ukrainian skater, but I don't remember exactly, but my mom used to tell a story about him all the time. There was some huge competition that he fell over and over and over again and continued to get up and not just get up, but like with gusto and a smile. And it was like the best performance ever, even though he biffed it like the whole time. Mm-hmm. there's a really endearing quality about people who are. Willing to try and to expand I and without bitterness. And without bitterness. Yes. We've talked a lot, we've talked about like in the All show No go episode. About how there's kind of a, I have a very low tolerance for people who are just all talk. Mm-hmm. it really radiates from people when you can tell that they've like, experienced life and like reflect on it and see the value of those challenges when people are. overcome by their challenges. I definitely need to learn a lot more compassion for those people, but it's very hard for me to relate mm-hmm. because that's not somewhere I wanna be. As soon as I find myself wallowing. Even yesterday when I told you like, that's all I wanna do right now is like stay stuck. Mm-hmm. I fucking hate myself when I'm doing that. I know that's not gonna help me. I knew that getting up to start lifting with you was like the right thing to do.

Cody 58:55

Well I was kind of pushy about it too. Cause I knew I'm glad you had to be. I knew Yeah. Cuz I knew, but, but the reason I knew is that I've been there so many times, you know, I've been in this position where it's like I don't fucking wanna feel better. I kind wanna like. I feel like shit right now, you know?

59:10

And

Tali 59:10

so, and there's benefit to that too. Yeah. But I also don't wanna lean too hard in that direction, cuz that can be debilitating. Mm-hmm. totally immobilizing. And like, we could have wasted the whole hour talking then moving. And I know that movement makes me feel better and powerful and I love to lift the weight, so I'll have fun. You know, like there are things that, that was a pretty good session too, wasn't it? It was a great session, yeah. Mm-hmm. it was a great session. I mean, I've had lifting sessions that were total garbage too like out of being stressed or distraught or whatever. Mm-hmm. But I also let it go and move forward. Yeah. I let it go.

Cody 59:48

Yeah. So there's a concept in the gym that I wanted to touch on that I think can apply out as well and have carry over to the real world, which is the difference between efficiency of movement or maximizing resistance. So you know, we, to bring it back to the ice skating analogy, I guess

Tali 1:00:10

isn't it cool that we can like talk about ice skating now and not just the gym?

Cody 1:00:13

Yeah. Well right now doing like the simple thing of forward movement, I feel like I've made a lot of progress cuz I can like pick up speed and I can get around the rinks and you know, that kind of thing. But it's exhausting. Like, I've come back out of breath, my ankles are burning and all of this kind of thing and some of that is conditioning. You said, you know, we're deconditioned for it cuz it's new, but some of it's not deconditioning. Some of it is that I'm very inefficient. Oh yeah. And so I'm tensing up where I don't need to be tensed up. I'm probably doing excessive movement where I don't need to do

Tali 1:00:45

it. That's why getting over the beginner phase is so important. Yeah.

Cody 1:00:48

But in the gym world, there's actually a reason sometimes to be efficient or inefficient and a good. contrast here is weightlifting versus body building. So in body building, your, your objective for body building is to increase muscle size, definition, et cetera. And so for hypertrophy training, like body building, the idea is to maximize resistance on the muscle. And that's why they do isolation exercises. Because getting a weight from your waist to your shoulder, the least efficient way to do that is a bicep curl that's like the least efficient way from your waist to your shoulder. Yeah. To lift a weight from your waist to your shoulder, a bicep curl. Oh, okay. Is the least efficient way to do that because you're only using one joint, your elbow, that's it. And so you're isolating the biceps in order to do that, in causing those biceps to grow. But you're maximizing resistance and it in, so another way to say that is it's the least efficient way to do that movement. If you do a hang clean, you are maximizing efficiency. Your bicep has very little to do with that movement, right? Or should have little to do with that movement And so a, a hang clean or a hang power clean is a more efficient way to move that barbell because the objective is not to grow the bicep. The objective is to get the most amount of weight from your waist to your shoulder in that movement. Yes. And so depending on your objectives, you can take that concept. Do I want this to be as efficient as possible or do I want to increase resistance in order to make myself grow?

Tali 1:02:35

in a certain way, will you have your arms stuck at your sides the next day?

Cody 1:02:40

as a result, right? So, and then we can balance that like on a spectrum, like you said, you know, like do we want to, we don't wanna push ourselves to injury, but we wanna push ourselves outside of our comfort zone, right? And so I think sometimes we can maybe look at this in a different light. And I think this also is an analogy with the dieting situation I was talking about. Being a little hungry feels like I'm on the edge. I'm making progress, getting hungry to the point where you have a headache and you're irritable and you're weak and you can't do shit that is not productive. no. So, so you gotta find that comfort edge where you're sort of like, you're, you're thinking of efficiency, but you're adding just enough resistance to cause you to grow.

Tali 1:03:28

So I, and that might not even just be a physical adaptation at that point. That's a mental adaptation too.

Cody 1:03:33

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So just another nuanced way of thinking about that is whether that's, you know, comfort or discomfort or, you know, willingly going into challenges or avoiding them. Another way of thinking of it is just efficiency versus inefficiency. And sometimes an inefficient way of doing something can be in a learning experience for you that's worth pursuing, even though it's not the most efficient way to do it. You know, it's kinda like a Well, there's a

Tali 1:04:03

value in and of itself

Cody 1:04:04

is what you're saying, right? There's a different value system. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kinda like a motorcycle trip. Yeah. A lot of times I'm not trying to go from one city to the next on the freeway. That's the most efficient way to get there. But I wanna see things that I can't see from a car when I'm on a motorcycle. So I'm gonna take a different route that's way less efficient. It's gonna take me twice as long to get there. But the experience is the objective, not the destination. Totally. And so, kind of another analogy there of ways we can apply this to learning, you know reading a book cover to cover is more efficient than stopping taking notes and trying to apply what you learned in each chapter. Mm. Mm-hmm. you know, so this is just another way of thinking about this, like intentional resistance. Like, I, I often talk about res like reducing resistance. Like if, if you want to create a new habit, you know, have your gym shoes in your car, you know, wear whatever, I'm sleep. Yeah. That kind of thing. But sometimes it's valuable to increase resistance in order to increase the adaptation, the learning experience.

Tali 1:05:06

Sarah. Yes. Yeah. It's also as important to assess where you're coming from what your starting point is. Right now I've started a new book on my gosh. What is that pot that audible? Yes. So I'm listening to it and I have not picked up a book in a while, and so I've had this kind of feeling of guilt, like maybe I should be reading this book out of a real book like a physical book rather than just listening to it. Yeah. But I'm not watching shitty shouty stuff on YouTube instead of Real Housewives.

Cody 1:05:40

Yeah, you can just say

Tali 1:05:41

it. Yeah. There are other shows that are just as shouty that I love, but it's taking the time that I would normally be putting my energy into that, or lack of energy kind of zoning out into that world. Yeah. So I think that's great. It's starting somewhere. Yeah. I think that's really great. Yeah. I'm reading Crying in H Mart. It's a, it's a memoir, which is one of my favorite genres to read or listened to, I guess. Which is a perfect. like entry point, like back into reading. Mm-hmm. Cause I really do enjoy reading. I just get really burnt out and if I don't feel like I have the right timing for it or whatever mm-hmm. it can feel like a really big inconvenience.

Cody 1:06:21

Yeah. Reading is a bit of a challenge with your current schedule cuz you're, we're, we're, there we're training slash coaching in the mornings. Mm-hmm. And then you go to work and you come home and you're tired and we make a meal together and at that point it's like, it's time to like wind down and having the mental energy to pick up, to pick up a book, book is a little

Tali 1:06:40

challenging, but I can listen to it when I'm in the shower. Yeah. When I'm doing like my face routine before bed. It's been great. I think it's great. Mm-hmm. so. That is out of my current comfort zone. And that's important to note too, is like your comfort zone changes. Just because you've expanded it doesn't mean it's gonna stay there. Oh yeah. You have to manage that. Or you atrophy just like those astronauts and space. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. like their bone density just tanks. And it's the same thing with everything we're talking about here. These things require maintenance and you know, you said life is a challenge and it is because there's, there's a lot holding us together.

Cody 1:07:20

Mm-hmm. Well, and there's this sort of saying that goes around that I'll part of butcher the exact words, but it's something like, you know, if you don't challenge yourself, then life, you know, if you don't choose your challenges, life will choose them for you. Oh yeah. And I like that one very clear. The idea there isn't that we're so omnipotent that we can just choose whatever challenges we want and. life will leave us alone in the rest of it, but we can make ourselves all much more resilient if we have a practice of constantly stepping out of our comfort zone. Because you can't, like you said, your atrophy, you stay in the center in that comfy center too long and pretty soon your, your comfort zone begins to shrink again. Sure. We don't all experience that. I mean, I've seen it so many times with people who are sort of introverted, who may challenge themselves like in a drama class, and, and they get out and they do things with, you know a community of sorts and they really step out of their comfort zone and they expand that. And then they go through a life change of some sort, maybe an age difference. They're not in high school anymore, whatever, and they, they start to spend more time watching TV and hanging out at the house, and pretty soon they're fucking reclused again. It's like you weren't always that way. Like that's not an inherent quality, it's just you allowed yourself to get into that rut. slowly over time because you kept edging back into a more comfortable position and avoiding those slightly discomfort things to now it's a major discomfort.

Tali 1:08:43

Yeah. Well that kind of makes me think about what I was so distraught about yesterday, feeling like I've kind of squandered my time off, leaning so hard into, I'm gonna call it laziness, because that's a part of myself that I do think is an inherent trait. Mm-hmm. that I, I, now that we're talking about it, I know that's not the case. It's just something that I did practice for many, many years and it's an old shoe. It's an old shoe, and it's like a scary old shoe. Like, I like to think of myself as having really turned my life around in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. and to see those. Tendencies creep back is really scary because it does make you think like, oh, this is just a part of me. Mm-hmm. that I'm always gonna have to fight against. And that's where that balance or that tiptoeing outside of our comfort zone all the time, or exposing ourselves to things, trying new things, like that's why that's so important to just make a part of your life. It's not just something to do like when you're 40 or when you retire, like any of these milestones. It's something that we should be exposing ourselves to all the time. Mm-hmm. I really think that that not only makes life more interesting and enjoyable, but you develop a relationship with yourself and you learn that you are capable of changing your life if you really want to. And you can, you know, take oth our other podcast episodes, you know, recruit a mentor, surround yourself, you know, by the power of association with people who are going to. exemplify that for you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you know, it doesn't have to be a solo journey. And that's what makes it so hard sometimes is feeling alone and not knowing where to start. And maybe not having the energy or the optimism to move. That was me yesterday. I felt anchored to the floor. Yeah.

Cody 1:10:37

Having a training partner is really important in situations like that, like you said, a mentor and the power of association, those three things are really, really powerful. I'm glad you brought 'em up because they can help pull us out of our comfort zone in a, in a way that I don't know, you build some accountability to other people a little bit and then also, kind of creates a way of being a little more safe, but still challenged. You know, it's not like you're seeking comfort in the group or in the mentor cuz a a a a positive association group or mentor is gonna challenge you, it's gonna pull you out into that comfort zone. But there's something about being led. Well, I I think there's a really good example of I've learned this in a, a leadership seminar. I saw it demonstrated in one time where you put a blindfold on somebody and they're up on stage and the person who is not blindfolded will push the person from the back and there's a ton of resistance cuz the person's blindfolded, they're being pushed from the back and they can't see where they're going. And so there's like all this resistance and push pushback. And then if the person who is not blindfolded goes around to the other side and pulls on the person and leads them, then there's. Hardly any resistance. I love that so much. And it's because the blindfolded person knows that their leader is in front of them, so they're not gonna step off the stage accidentally cuz they can't. Right, right. And so I, I think that's a way of challenging yourself, but feeling a bit of a safety net and knowing that this person has my best interest at heart, or these people have been where I want to go. So even though this is really uncomfortable for me, I know I'm not gonna kill myself in this process of, of change. Yeah. Because I have the support of these other people. Yeah.

Tali 1:12:27

I find myself thinking about this in nearly every single episode that we have had so far, is this idea of a assessment and how important that is. Because I think our views of ourselves can be incredibly skewed to what is happening in reality. That if we aren't honest with ourselves, like we'll never. reach our potential. Mm-hmm. we'll never fully live we'll, never surprise ourselves. Mm-hmm. if we can't take a real look in the mirror as I'll just say what I used to think about myself, like, I'm a manipulative person. I'm a lazy person, I'm a stupid person, whatever, you know? Not saying that I'm encouraging, like negative self-talk, but I think it's, we've also had an episode about like really assessing where you're at. What can, what can I realistically handle right now? Mm-hmm. because we've talked about, you know, having goals or visions of ourselves that are like really daunting to the point where we don't do anything. Mm-hmm. right? Yeah. And we kind of just fantasize in our mind of, oh, this is what I'm gonna be doing. Mm-hmm. and that is enough for me to just think about it or to write a list about it. Mm-hmm. But that's not experiencing it.

Cody 1:13:47

Yeah. And I think the idea of to-do lists, I've done this all my life, is Hmm. To, to-do list, to-do lists, to-do lists or goal lists or whatever, and all these things I wanna accomplish. We're reading a book right now and we're just kind of in the, we're reading it very slowly cuz it's a few minutes every morning while you're getting ready for work, but, right. It's called essentialism. And he brings up a really funny point in there, is that the word priority mean the, the roots of that word, the entomology of it is prior meaning it's before everything else. And priority means that there's no such thing as a word priorities, plural, That's, that's a modern invention that we can have priorities and there's no such thing. You cannot have priorities because the whole idea is that this one thing precedes everything else. And so there's only such a thing as one priority. We live in a linear or we're, we're sort of trapped in a, a linear time. you know, in this universe. And so we can only do one thing at a time no matter what we think we can do. So I, I'm starting to think that this whole idea of making to-do lists is a bullshit way of approaching, trying to organize things. I think maybe you can make a list of desired outcomes or tasks or whatever but then the exercise needs to be like, oh, I'm not gonna, I'm not, I'm not gonna work through this list. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna choose one thing from this list, and that goes in a scheduled position in my planner. And then after that's done, I can revisit the list. But until then, I'm not gonna plan the next five things, the next seven priorities. You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose one fucking thing. I'm gonna do that. And then I can return to the list and choose another thing. But not until that first thing is done. And I know that sounds kind of dumb, like. Well, duh. That's what a to-do list is supposed to be. But

Tali 1:15:36

I'm sure not everybody experiences their to-do list in such a straightforward way, but that's not,

Cody 1:15:40

but that's not the reality of how it usually works. Usually you have a to-do list and it's like, oh shit, where do I start and what do I do? And maybe I can do these five things today or whatever.

Tali 1:15:49

And I sometimes put things I've already done on the list so that I can have a check mark So it looks like I've already gotten stuff done. Yeah. I'm fooling myself. I know.

Cody 1:15:58

And what I've done my whole life. And it's like, what, how long, how many years do I have to do this before I learn this stupid lesson? Is that my to-do Lists always grow. My to-do list never shrink. It doesn't matter how fucking productive I am that day, I'm gonna have more to do at the end of the day than I started with all the time because my mind is way more efficient at thinking up shit to do than my body is at actually implementing the, the to-do list. So

Tali 1:16:21

we haven't gotten to any action steps in our essentialist book or essentialism book. But wouldn't it be interesting to just try, I'm gonna do five things today. You're not allowed to add anything to it. Mm-hmm.

Cody 1:16:34

Well, this kind of relates to something you were just talking about a way of assessment. Mm-hmm. and it kind of made me think that it might be a fun exercise to do. In fact, I think I'm gonna do this and maybe I'll report back here on the podcast of finding categories in my life. So relationship with you relationships with others, and then, you know, like my workouts, my progress on the business, whatever, you know, find categories. that are important. And then score myself on how much I'm being, excuse me, how much I'm challenging myself in those.

Tali 1:17:12

I love that, you know, how there are those habit tracker layouts that like we just did one for our business. Mm-hmm. coaching what if there was something like that? Yeah. Entice people or encourage people to be challenged.

Cody 1:17:26

Yeah. And just in as an assessment to see where, where am I hiding in my comfort zone? Mm. I like that. So if I'm scoring myself low, you know, if I'm a a two in my relationship, that means I'm just like going with the flow. Like everything's easy and I'm not, I'm, you know, I'm not challenging enough to improve in that category. Whereas a 10 is like, well, this could break me Yeah. And yeah, that might be an interesting way to assess. whether we're in a growth phase or, or stagnating.

Tali 1:18:01

Yes. I would love to implement that in our maybe our work for our couples this week or something. I'd love that idea so much. I think that's so valuable. Because I, like I said, there are so many other tools out there that I think people really like to use, especially because it's kind of gamified in a way. Mm-hmm. But that might be in a way of steering people in a really different direction. Mm. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really fun. Like, I think a lot of times, like you said, challenge can become really exciting and exhilarating. Like how cool to promote that. Yeah. And to teach people how to do that.

Cody 1:18:34

I think this relates a lot to the concept of my book where, where we are taught so many times to make lists like this, but the lists are what goals do I want? What outcomes do I want? Am I working toward those outcomes? What are the steps to those outcomes, et cetera. But how often do we stop and ask ourselves, am I being challenged in this category? See, because that really is, I think, a, a much more accurate indicator of whether you're actually making progress than a to-do list or a task list or a

Tali 1:19:07

strategy, a vision board or a strategy looking of how to get there. I'm looking, I'm looking at our vision board right now and you know, my mom and Ken, they redo their vision board every year on New Year's. And I kind of wanna do that. because I can already see a couple of things on there that I'm like I don't really care to do that this year. Mm-hmm. And I know that there's kind of a push and pull between like wanting to have short term quote unquote goals or long life, like lifelong term, like lifestyle. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But we've also talked about the value of having something coming up. Mm-hmm. as a way to like get a move on on things. Yeah. Like this power lifting meat that you and I are talking about. It's really gotten us in gear and like, I feel like we're built, we've gotten a lot of traction in that pursuit. Mm-hmm. And so I'm wondering if. if we should do that, if we should

Cody 1:20:01

reassess. Yeah. It might be fun to combine these two ideas of looking at your vision board and asking yourself if you're being challenged in the category of something that's on your vision board. Mm-hmm. Because if it's just up there and you're not doing shit probably just gonna stay up there. It's not, it's not actually gonna come into your life. Yeah.

Tali 1:20:19

Some of those things feel kind of stale. Yeah. Like I'm looking at there's a picture of an elk on there. Mm-hmm. like we should be doing target practice. Mm-hmm.

Cody 1:20:29

Right. Something. Or reading that book I got

Tali 1:20:32

Yeah. On like, on hunting. Hunting, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, some things are just looking a little, little dusty, a little stale. And I would really like us to reassess that. I know I've mentioned wanting to do it for a while, but going into the new year, obviously I live on planet Earth. It's easy to get sucked into the hype. Mm-hmm. I'm having, there's a lot of like ideas right now. What are my non-New Year's goals or something? Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm not saying it right, but there's a trend online that people are like not doing New Year's resolutions. Yeah. Which is fine.

Cody 1:21:05

Well I feel like it's an obligatory thing that doesn't mean much. I mean we,

Tali 1:21:10

well cuz these things can be happening all the time. You can always set resolutions for yourself. Yeah,

Cody 1:21:15

yeah. Yeah. Any given Monday can be a new start.

Tali 1:21:18

So I feel like Monday is like the great reset for me. Yeah. My whole world changes on Monday. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cody 1:21:25

Yeah. I'm reading Tomic Habits by James Clear and he actually talks about if you're going to implement a new practice slash habit in your life, to choose a first of the month, a Monday. a first of the year, a holiday, something like that. Because even though it's arbitrary psychologically, it actually matters. You know, we actually do attribute value to starting dates that are specific like that.

Tali 1:21:51

Sure, yeah. Kind of like the rituals. Exactly. Yeah. It just kind of primes you to pump up the energy and whatever steps are necessary to get it rolling. Yep. But what I also like to do, Cody, if you're interested, what if we made a vision board through an essentialist lens? Mm-hmm. right now, we've got like 50 fucking things up there. What if we just paired it down?

Cody 1:22:16

Like one per category? Like one thing for the ranch, one thing for physical, one thing for, yeah. Time. Yeah. Yeah.

Tali 1:22:22

Because I was telling you earlier today, like I just get buried under all of the to-dos that we have. Mm-hmm. I just don't feel energized by it when I feel like they've piled too high. Yeah, absolutely. What do you think? I like it. I do too. Okay. And we can tuck all those pictures away that are on the vision board now, like to keep at a later time. Mm-hmm. But I like the idea of picking like one thing from each category. How cool. Yeah. Or

Cody 1:22:47

maybe maybe leave a big vision board like that and you have a little narrow thing right there. And maybe we could just put like one thing from each category on that, that we're really working toward right now. Yeah. But I just

Tali 1:22:57

like, don't want that up in my face. Okay. I get it. I get, it's kinda like that big to-do list and I'm also gonna write that down. It's like a possible thing for our couples to do together. All right. Vision building. Cuz we've talked about a shared vision Right. As like a part of the trifecta, so. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. Hopefully we'll have a business update for everyone listening before this podcast comes out. We've made a lot of changes in our pursuit to become online coaches for both athletics and other so we'll, we'll, Elaborate on that sometime soon. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Or before you hear this, gosh, it's so weird being all mismatched and out of order. Well, I

Cody 1:23:38

feel like we had some good ideas

Tali 1:23:39

today. I think so too. Action steps. That's what I really want from these podcast episodes are action steps. Some

Cody 1:23:45

takeaways. Yeah. Yes. So we finished up here with quite a few different action steps. You know, paring down into a more centralist viewpoint on the things that you're desiring for outcomes. Asking yourself if you're being challenged in the categories of those outcomes. And maybe even make a list of the big categories in your life and asking yourself if you're being challenged in those categories. Because if you're not being challenged in a specific category, there's a danger that you're atrophy. and maybe even perishing going backwards. So yeah, I think there's some good takeaways there. Well, and just,

Tali 1:24:19

I think to just practice having the attitude that challenges essential to life. Yeah. And a good life and enjoy it

Cody 1:24:26

a good life. Yeah. And, and try to build a mindset of enjoying challenges. Not just the ones that come at you where you're trying to like, look on the bright side, what can I learn from this? You know, that's one way of reframing, but the other way of reframing that I mentioned earlier, which is like, just stay a little hungry. You know? So how is this gonna be good for me? Stay a little bit on the edge, you know? If you're, if you're working out in the gym, it should be a little hard, you know? Yes. Like, oh gosh. Yeah. That's a hard one. And so yeah, keep that presence of mind to ask yourself if you're really being challenged, cuz if not, you might be slipping backwards. Love it. You

Tali 1:25:02

wanna sign

Cody 1:25:02

off? Yeah. I think that was great. Thanks for this conversation. Love you. I love you hun. See you next week. See you next week.

Tali 1:25:11

This episode was produced by Tali Zabari and Cody Limbaugh. Check out our writing, coaching services and home studying adventures at live all your life.com. For show notes, resources mentioned, or to submit a question or contribution, click on the podcast tab.