Live All Your Life

026: How Do Your Habits Carryover Into Other Areas Of Your Life? The Meta Episode of The Philosophy Of Fitness

December 20, 2022 Cody Limbaugh and Tali Zabari Season 1 Episode 26
Live All Your Life
026: How Do Your Habits Carryover Into Other Areas Of Your Life? The Meta Episode of The Philosophy Of Fitness
Show Notes Transcript

Explore some key concepts for leveraging the best outcomes. What practices, habits, and actions do you display that carry over into other, seemingly unrelated parts of your life? 

00:00 Intro

00:44 Icebreaker: If you could be great at any sport, what would it be? 

03:08 Shout out to History Memes

05:07 Today's topic: Carryover - Keystone Practices that can carryover to multiple areas in your life

06:17 A mental model for thinking about carryover: 3 Orders of thinking: Examples: - a) Fitness, exercise carries over to real sport, b) Fitness carries over to life, longevity, mental clarity, etc... c) How the *principles* of fitness carryover to non-fitness related concepts

08:53 The Immortality Key - Brian C. Muraresku, forward by Graham Hancock

The contrast between learning about something and experiencing something

10:31 The Practice of Authenticity (Honesty, Vulnerability, Forthrightness, Bravery, Action)

17:09 The Practice of Explicit Agreements

21:45 Brene Brown - Not everyone has earned the right to know your story

24:09 Gary Vaynerchuk - Compassionate Candor

26:58 The Practice of Expedient Truth: Coming together ASAP to avoid building resentment (Honesty + Forthrightness + Timing)

43:00 A 4th order of thinking: When your actions change who you are.

44:12 Some valuable information about the truth of sustenance hunting

51:14 The Practice of Meditation

55:50 Headspace

56:27 Yoga Punx

57:39 Waking Up with Sam Harris

59:49 You are not your emotions. ALL emotion, regardless of intensity, are transitory... One way to feel better about someone else, is to conduct yourself in the way you can be proud of

1:05:35 Taking a queue from our examples, what other practices or actions can you find that has carryover into other areas of your life? And what might have negative carryover?

1:07:09 Tali, "respect the idea that everything you're doing has some sort of implementation on you as a person, and that shouldn't be taken lightly." 

1:07:33 Atomic H

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 Ep 16 PhOfFit The Metta Pod

Ep 16 PhOfFit The Metta Pod

[00:00:00] Cody: Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh. And 

[00:00:17] Tali: I'm Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of Fitness Podcast on 

[00:00:22] Cody: the Live All Your Life network.

[00:00:44] Tali: All right, well, today's icebreaker is if you could be great at any sport, physical ability aside which one would you pick? And why? 

[00:00:56] Cody: It's funny that I would answer something that, I don't even know the name of [00:01:00] what , but I think it's called like Biathlons or something like that. It's like cross country skiing and shooting.

[00:01:10] Cody: Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. But there's also like a bow one, like bow one bow and arrow one, like there's like an archery version of it and Cool. I think that would be pretty rad to be good at. Okay. Because it seems like practical skills. , 

[00:01:23] Tali: they most definitely are. They're definitely intrinsically linked.

[00:01:26] Tali: Which what's totally obvious to me the first time met ever, I had ever seen it on tv. But now that we've been like all up in hunting season, I totally get it. . Yeah. 

[00:01:36] Cody: You know, I was thinking about these icebreakers earlier today though, during our breakfast is that you coming up with them means you, you have forethought.

[00:01:44] Cody: and you just spring 'em on me live on the air. I have definitely 

[00:01:48] Tali: made them up on the spot though today. Yes ma'am. I was actually intentional about 

[00:01:52] Cody: it. So I'm just putting that out as a disclaimer because that was just the first thing that came to mind. And I don't know what do you wanna like take it back or something?

[00:01:59] Cody: [00:02:00] No, I just, there's a lot of sports out there for 

[00:02:02] Tali: sure. And sports land. So even though I had some time to like mold this over I have changed my answer throughout the day. . Oh see? Yeah. And so I think my final answer would be diving free diving. Is that 

[00:02:19] Cody: different? That's one where you hold your breath and see how low you can go, huh?

[00:02:23] Cody: No, no, no. Not 

[00:02:24] Tali: that. Oh, like diving off a light board. Like diving off a board? Yeah. Okay. I just think it's so beautiful. Mm-hmm. and it takes incredible athleticism. Mm-hmm. . And I love the water and I also love to be like, you know, all that's on me. 

[00:02:40] Cody: Uhhuh . You'd be good at that sport actually. I think, you 

[00:02:44] Tali: know, fear Heights though kinda kind of keeps me from that 

[00:02:47] Cody: arena.

[00:02:48] Cody: Well, you start at this low one and you work your way up. Mm-hmm. , 

[00:02:50] Tali: right? Mm-hmm. , didn't we just watch a video the other day of some record breaking high dive? Ugh. 

[00:02:56] Cody: 172 

[00:02:57] Tali: feet or some shit that was so terrifying. Challenging [00:03:00] to watch. Yeah. Yeah. And his wife is down there with like two little kids. Ooh. Yeah. I would've, I'd hate you if you did that

[00:03:08] Cody: We watched that on history memes, which is worth a follow if you're totally, if you're on Instagram, follow history, memes. It's pretty great. And I remember that clip, I think from when I was a kid. I remember watching that. I don't remember what on tv. I don't remember what year it was, but I remember watching one of those super high record breaking dives on tv.

[00:03:27] Cody: And it's funny because we watched it. Like 42nd meme clip. And I remember that being like a half an hour show of all this buildup and like watching him climb the ladder and it's like dun dun dun. You know? Oh fuck that part. Fucking drama. And it's just like, is he ever gonna jump off of that thing? Like is it gonna really happen?

[00:03:48] Cody: Yep. Geez. And then, and then the whole dive takes like three seconds. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Cuz gravity's fast. 

[00:03:54] Tali: We also had watched a meme about, or maybe it was a standup comedy [00:04:00] routine of their, like, kids today would've never lasted through our childhoods. Yeah. Just because of their patience or their back talking or whatever it was.

[00:04:09] Tali: Yeah. 

[00:04:10] Cody: I forget that comic's name. He had his own show for a while. George Lopez. Yeah. George Lopez. I've never seen a standup, but that was pretty funny. It was really funny. Yeah. He's like, I'm bored. B get knocked out. . 

[00:04:21] Tali: Well yeah, cuz screens weren't You couldn't travel with them? 

[00:04:25] Cody: Nope. Yet. Nope. I dreamt of it though cuz I was so into Star Trek and they had little screens that they would just walk around with and I was like, ah, someday I'm gonna have a computer that's the size of a book.

[00:04:35] Cody: It's gonna be 

[00:04:35] Tali: amazing. Did you ever think it'd ever be as annoying as it actually 

[00:04:39] Cody: is? No. I thought it would be way cooler. Like I thought I'd be able to design stuff and engineer things and you can and design stuff, you just don't. And now I look at like cat memes and butts and that's my internet. So cat memes and butts.

[00:04:58] Cody: I mean, is that our [00:05:00] politics? Which is makes me mad so I just to avoid the politics. 

[00:05:04] Tali: Yeah. Alright, well that's what coming through Cody's feet. Everybody . Okay. Today's topic is all about carryover, which I thought was kind of funny at first because that is. The theme of this entire 

[00:05:16] Cody: podcast, this is a meta podcast.

[00:05:18] Cody: This is Inception, 

[00:05:20] Tali: ception a podcast within a podcast. Yeah, so talking about carryover and obviously the philosophy of fitness for us is about taking lessons that we've learned in the gym and applying them to life. But today we wanted to talk a little bit more about other quote unquote keystone practices, which are essentially like integral to the structure of our lives and have influence on lots of other elements on our lives.

[00:05:47] Tali: Mm-hmm. . So yeah. Discussing other keystone practices like fitness that have the capacity to teach us lessons. And I'm really curious about this one, [00:06:00] because fitness is a really easy one for us to draw from as enthusiasts, fitness professionals. But there's more to us than that. We're not just meatheads.

[00:06:09] Tali: Mm-hmm. . So you'll be able to learn a little bit more about us as people I think in this episode too. 

[00:06:16] Cody: Yeah. And I wanted to start out a little bit with Some of my thoughts of what carryover means and kind of boil that down so that as you listening, as you listen to this podcast, you might be able to come up with things in your own life and, and see how we're really trying to apply that term of carryover.

[00:06:33] Cody: So I thought of this as sort of three different levels, if you will. Okay. So the first, first level, or first order thinking, if you will, sort of like surface thinking of carryover within fitness would be like box jumps might improve a sprinter's ability to start off of the starting gate. Okay. Okay. And so that's an exercise that carries over to [00:07:00] a sports specific thing.

[00:07:01] Cody: Got it. So that's like first level thinking. And in fitness, that's a common thing that we look for with GPP or general physical preparedness is how are things gonna carry over? Is this exercise I'm doing actually gonna carry over to my real life to be valuable or is this just Like, it's making me sweat, you know, like there some exercises just aren't as valuable.

[00:07:23] Cody: A second order thinking of fitness and carryover is how fitness carries over to other areas of your life. Mm-hmm. . So if you're fit in general terms, you might sleep better. And if you sleep better, you're gonna have more energy throughout the day. And fitness and, and the activity. Lessens, depression adds to longevity, strength, joint, you know, health, all these kind of things.

[00:07:49] Cody: And so that's kind of like second order thinking of carryover. One is specific within fitness and one is how fitness affects the rest of your life. Mm-hmm. and then, What this [00:08:00] podcast is about is really third order thinking, which is how does fitness or the things that we can learn from fitness apply to things completely unrelated to fitness.

[00:08:12] Cody: Right. And so what are the universal principles, if you will, that we've discovered through fitness? And an example of that might be things that we've talked about in past episodes. So, you know, no one can do the reps for you. And you learn that in the gym. Like, doesn't matter what coach you have, you have to do the work.

[00:08:28] Cody: Right. And in most of life, there's a big difference between learning something and experiencing something. We've talked about that a lot lately in our personal conversations. Yeah. About the difference between knowledge and experience. You know, for a long time I think that was called like book smarts or street smarts.

[00:08:45] Cody: But, but I, I like the idea of, you know, you haven't, you don't know something until you experience, you don't know until 

[00:08:51] Tali: you know. 

[00:08:51] Cody: Yeah. And. Brian, me Rescue in his book the Immortality Key, he talks about this in regards [00:09:00] to psychedelics, for instance, how you can read about psychedelics and you can read about studies on how they affect you and how they work and your body and how they're affecting your brain, and, and read about people's experiences on them and all these life changing things.

[00:09:12] Cody: And you can read and read and read and read and read, and you can know a lot and it's still not gonna prepare you for the experience of actually taking psychedelics. 

[00:09:19] Tali: Yeah. And I think that experience really makes for credibility. Mm-hmm. , you know, and also being able to make an exper an experience. You can interpret things on your own now.

[00:09:28] Tali: You don't have to use other people's interpretations or their words, and. . You know, as coaches we're always trying to communicate effectively to our clients and a lot of that is reframing or rephrasing things all the time, changing the language so that it makes sense to whoever we're talking to. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:48] Tali: And so experiencing things for ourselves is really crucial. Yeah. 

[00:09:52] Cody: To, so anyway, that's kind of a third order thinking of how fitness can apply to other areas that are outside of the fitness world. So [00:10:00] I just use a example of psychedelics, relationships, you know, all kinds of stuff that we've done. So today we're gonna try to explore maybe some of the more of that third order thinking.

[00:10:09] Cody: Mm-hmm. and see if we can apply, but from different origins. Yeah. See if we can apply the concept of carryover that we see in fitness, but where does that apply in other areas of your life? 

[00:10:19] Tali: Yeah. It's kind of like we're reiterating what this podcast is all about, yet we are taking a bit of a departure as well.

[00:10:27] Tali: Yeah. Yeah. , what do you wanna talk about first? 

[00:10:30] Cody: So I didn't have a lot of notes for today. Okay. , this is gonna be just free flowing, but one of the first things that came to mind is a big change in my life in the last, I would say six years. Cuz it kind of like just predates you and I meeting Okay. Which was my decision that I want to be, I wanna really live an authentic life and be very open and vulnerable and just be me.

[00:10:55] Cody: And if people don't like it, they can fuck off and I don't need 'em in my life. And [00:11:00] so that I, if I'm only surrounding myself with people who kind of accept me for me, and I'm not saying that as a way to cop out for bad behavior because I, I despise that. Yeah. For, I wanna be a good person and I'm compassionate and kind to people and, and that kind of thing.

[00:11:15] Cody: But at the same time, I have certain preferences in my life that are very non-traditional and I just need to be okay with being able to express that and. and if people aren't okay with it, then we're not a good fit for each other, basically. 

[00:11:31] Tali: Yeah. You're not subjecting yourself to judgment or criticism and you know, I think it's important to have not like a low tolerance for those things necessarily, but like if you find that the response from others is going to like diminish your shine, if you will, it's totally not worth it.

[00:11:52] Cody: Yeah. So when we met and I had just sort of recently made that decision, it caused a lot of changes in my life. My life kind of like [00:12:00] got turned upside down, ending a marriage and closing a business down and like make a whole bunch of life change, like life choices that were. very pivotal. It's like a, that's a good way to think about it.

[00:12:13] Cody: It was like, it was a big pivot from one direction to another in my life. Mm-hmm. . So when you and I met each other, that was just sort of our policy from the start was like, okay, we're gonna try this thing where we're just gonna be super vulnerable and honest with each other right from the start, even though we hardly even know each other.

[00:12:28] Cody: Yeah. And what it did was it created a really, really close bond, like really, really fast. And, well, 

[00:12:35] Tali: that's also because it was kind of new for both of us too. Mm-hmm. . I had recently been out of a relationship where I had practiced honesty in a way that it was very scary to me. I recall saying something to my boyfriend with my eyes closed cuz I was just afraid of how it was gonna land, that I couldn't even look at what his response was [00:13:00] gonna be.

[00:13:00] Tali: So I was like, all right, I'm just gonna close my eyes and I'm just gonna say it. Mm-hmm. however, it al it wasn't always like, received very well. And so, you know, I had decided to, you know, break off that relationship and with you, I decided like, okay, I wanna keep flexing that muscle. Mm-hmm. . So you and I were also on the same page, kind of newly going for it, like all in mm-hmm.

[00:13:24] Tali: And so I think that that bond definitely is, could be attributed to that also being kind of like in similar stages. 

[00:13:31] Cody: Absolutely. Yeah. But where I'm getting to the point of carryover is that now you and I have been together for five years-ish. And almost, and practicing. And I say practicing because it's not a habit, it's a very intentional thing where we really strive to be honest and vulnerable in every situation.

[00:13:52] Cody: There's no barriers, there's no secrets, there's no, like, I see so many memes online that are meant to be funny [00:14:00] about like, ooh, you know, the. The night she opens your phone while you're sleeping or something and then it shows like the guy sleeping out on the lawn or something like that. And it's like, aw, it's a sad world we live in.

[00:14:13] Cody: Like when loving couples would like have to hide their phones from each other or something like that. It's just a weird, it's weird to me now because it's weird to us now because of our relationship. Like everything is on the table, everything, every little intimate insecurity or detail or anything about our lives is on the table for us to share with each other.

[00:14:31] Cody: And it's created a really amazing bond, but it's also a sense of freedom. It's just amazing. It feels so light and like, I don't know how else to describe it, but freeing, it's, it feels free to be with you. And finally, getting to my point, there's carryover because I find myself having flexed that muscle, as you say with you and practicing that in our relationship, it's so much more easy for me to be.

[00:14:58] Cody: Honest and vulnerable to other [00:15:00] people. Yeah. So even in situations that seem unrelated, for instance, telling my boss that I was giving him like three and a half months notice, that was nerve wracking for me because I've been burned in that situation in the past. I think one reason why two weeks notice is why most people do as a consideration is because they can't just, you're not gonna depend on that paycheck because if you're only giving two weeks notice, then even if they say, well fuck you, leave today.

[00:15:28] Cody: Yeah, okay, you just lost two weeks of work. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. But if I gave three and a half months notice and they told me to leave cuz they were mad or started cutting my hours or something, that would've been really horrific for us financially. So that was a bit. A risky thing to do, but I was so used to being so honest and, and kind of flexing that muscle with you that it was just easy to just tell my boss, Hey, I'm, we're starting this new business and we're, we're launching this thing and we're planning on taking it off in November.

[00:15:58] Cody: And you know, I appreciate [00:16:00] having worked here and I'd like to help train my replacement cuz I know it's not easy. And so if you can find someone before I leave it, it'll be about three and a half months. And it was received really well. Luckily, I, they've been really supportive. But I think that's a good example of carryover where our policy, if you will, in our relationship has now carried over to change who I am to make that difference in other areas of my life.

[00:16:25] Tali: Absolutely. And honesty was the first thing on my list as well as a keystone practice. As someone who always. felt a lot of shame for a lot of my actions or always questioning like the rightness or wrongness of what I was doing. You know, especially in relationships. When you are like exclusive with somebody, it's really easy to assume what the rules, boundaries, et cetera are.

[00:16:55] Tali: And a lot of times they're not explicitly said or agreed upon [00:17:00] even. Right. And that was something that was so different about our relationship. Mm-hmm. is that right up front. We made those things really known and they were agreed 

[00:17:08] Cody: upon. Yeah. And what, before you go on, I, I don't want you to lose your train of thought, but I just want to call out for that.

[00:17:17] Cody: I made mistakes like you were instrumental in helping that be explicit because I made assumptions early on in our relationship. Hmm. , 

[00:17:26] Tali: what, what's coming to mind for you, ? 

[00:17:29] Cody: Well, I remember one time. I don't even remember what the conversation was about, and I was being sarcastic and being, I'm thinking that I was being funny.

[00:17:38] Cody: I'm already 

[00:17:39] Tali: cringing just thinking about 

[00:17:40] Cody: it. Oh my God. But I had referred to myself as your boyfriend. Yes. . And you were like, I lost my Yeah. And you were just like, all of a sudden went cold and like, I think you texted me later. I did not agree to be, you know, like that you were my boyfriend. Yeah. You're my boyfriend.

[00:17:57] Cody: Yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of a shock [00:18:00] to me because a, I was being sort of sarc, sarcastic and like silly in 

[00:18:04] Tali: the moment. Sounded like you were gonna say psychotic . No, I was being silly as far as like, I was just trying to be a good boyfriend is what I was saying about something that I was doing.

[00:18:14] Cody: Yeah. And so I thought it was like a lighthearted comment then you like Rono. Yeah. And then later on you explicitly was like, I want to be monogamous and I was kind of like, I thought we already were . . Yeah. I forgot about that too. And and it's true. We were, it's just like we hadn't made the agreement 

[00:18:34] Tali: yet.

[00:18:34] Tali: No, we hadn't. Because you and I had talked about all different kinds of relationships that we were interested in pursuing. Yeah. Before. . I had asked that. I actually very vividly remember like where we were in our room. Right? Well, I think it was my room at the time. I don't think it was our room yet. Was it?

[00:18:52] Tali: I think I was living there by then. It's possible. We've done a lot of things out of order. See, that's why 


[00:18:55] Cody: that's why I had assumed we were monogamous 

[00:18:57] Tali: are Cause I you saying that you would assume you're monogamous [00:19:00] with somebody just cuz you live with them, because you move in with . 

[00:19:04] Cody: But still, I kind of opened my eyes to be like, oh, you know what?

[00:19:06] Cody: We can't just take shit for granted. No, you can't. We have to make explicit agreements. And that's been really great for our relationship ever since, you know, because we bring shit to the table and 99 at times out of a hundred, we agree. And we're like, oh yeah, totally. I'm on the same page. And so it's almost like, well, that didn't need to be said, but it did, because now we know that we're on the same page and now we know that there's an explicit agreement.

[00:19:31] Tali: Yeah. Well, I, so I did lose my train of thought, but something that did come up for me is, you know, you were telling the story about talking to your boss, and I'm gonna just go out on a limb and assume that your relationship didn't deepen with your boss as a result. 

[00:19:45] Cody: I don't know if I'd go that far, right?

[00:19:48] Cody: No, no, I'm not. No, I'm saying I think it has, oh, not in like, any kind of like deep, meaningful way, like friendship or anything like that. But I've [00:20:00] noticed ever since I've given notice, , I've noticed since I've given notice at notice, notice that I'm gonna quit. well, first of all, I got a raise after that.

[00:20:09] Cody: That's so weird. Like a month later, he gave me a raise. And I don't know if that was just a last ditch effort to try to get me to stay or whatever, but things have been really relaxed as far as the attitude and the communication because things were kind of formal before that I'd say not mean or professional.

[00:20:28] Cody: Yeah. It was just kind of like really formal and, and lately I don't know, it's just been a little different. Like he'll bring up hunting or something like that, and there was never a small talk before that. Oh, interesting. So, yeah, I, I do think maybe. That did 

[00:20:42] Tali: actually. Okay. Yeah. Well, I was wrong about assuming that should have, should have known, based off of just talking about assumptions that I shouldn't do such a thing.

[00:20:50] Tali: But I definitely have noticed for myself when it comes to like the relationship that I have with my mom, which I had always felt was [00:21:00] very open. You know, now that I'm 31, she's 61. And I knew that our relationship would change in my adulthood in terms of like how much we share with our lives.

[00:21:13] Tali: But now it's like, not even, I don't even like. hesitate to tell her things, like, things that would be like, oh, I don't think my mother should know that. Mm-hmm. , I just tell her cuz I want a really honest relationship with her. And I know that she's been putting in a lot of work herself to be more vulnerable in the moment to share her experience.

[00:21:33] Tali: She, 

[00:21:33] Cody: yeah. Some of the things you've shared with her have shocked me. I'm like, what would you tell your mom that? Well, they're 

[00:21:38] Tali: kind of, it would be shocking, but I feel like it's not anymore because that's just my policy now. And you know, there was this thing that Brene Brown had said, like, not everyone has earned the right to know your story.

[00:21:50] Tali: And I think that's true when it comes to our past and like all the things that have led us to become certain ways. But I do think that everybody [00:22:00] deserves your honesty. Mm-hmm. you know, that might not always have to lean into the side of like vulnerability or like deep dark depths, but I mean, how often are we just like, reflexively saying, I'm fine, or Yeah, have a great summer.

[00:22:17] Tali: I don't fucking know. But you know, it's just, I feel like so much of our interactions with people are just so unbelievably surface level that we have practiced being surface level with people. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And I feel like so much more enriched by having this level of honesty with you that I wanna have with my family members, with my friends.

[00:22:40] Tali: Mm-hmm. my clients. You know, it's just I feel like it's really spilled out into other areas of life and kind of in the same way that weightlifting has taught me to kind of stand on my own two feet and try things. Honesty is the same way. Like being honest can be really fucking scary sometimes.

[00:22:57] Tali: Mm-hmm. . But the more that [00:23:00] you live through it and breathe through it and just keep going the easier it is and the lighter you feel, just like you said. . You know, I always felt like I was somebody who like harbored a lot of secrets or kept my opinion to myself or, you know, just kept my cards close. I don't feel that way anymore.

[00:23:20] Tali: And I think just before we were recording, we were, I was kind of lamenting on, you know, I had always thought that honesty or practicing like quote unquote radical honesty would kind of turn me into one of those like really loud mouthed people who are just like being honest, no offense, like , that kind of thing.

[00:23:41] Tali: But it doesn't have to be, it really does not have to be aggressive. And that's where you were talking about compassionate candor. Yeah. Which I think of that as like the next step. Like there'll be an evolution to this honesty to have like an understanding of like how to do that with acquaintances or [00:24:00] professional people in your life like, , there are levels to it, I think.

[00:24:04] Tali: Mm-hmm. that could definitely use practice and identifying like their distinctions. 

[00:24:09] Cody: Yeah. Giving credit where credits due. Gary Vaynerchuk has been talking about that for the last year or so of kind candor or compassionate candor and the analogy he was using because he's just all business. Like, he doesn't talk about his personal life that much, but he thought that he was like a kind boss and yet sometimes people would end up leaving the company and just talking shit about him online and he was like, Aw.

[00:24:36] Cody: And he is like, what, what has happened that they like hate me? And he realized it's because his kindness was actually sort of like protecting himself in conflict avoidance. And so he would let shit slide when it shouldn't have and then end up having to fire that person later. Be, and there was no communication in between.

[00:24:55] Cody: It was like, oh, everything's fine. Everything's fine, everything's fine. Everything's really not fine. You need to leave, [00:25:00] you know, kind of thing. Yeah. That's Bob. And, and so it would create a lot of problems and he realized that he, in his attempt to be kind, he was actually hurting people. And so he was like, I need to develop the strength by flexing that muscle of being candorous.

[00:25:16] Cody: But I can still be kind, I can be honest and make corrections all along the way and be, you know, blunt with people, but do it in a way that's kind and compassion, and I don't have to be the kind of boss that's gonna, because he grew up with an example of like a really compassionate mom and a really like blunt dad who was, could be kind of an asshole to his employees.

[00:25:36] Cody: Okay. Because they're like Russian immigrants. And he kinda had this like hard attitude of like, you know, like that could just be lost in translation. My, yeah. Well he, the way he describes it is like he came from a culture where, people were starving. And so it's common for your employees or whatever to steal shit from you all the time.

[00:25:52] Cody: Mm-hmm. . And so he just had this assumption that you gotta protect what's yours, you know? And he had this kind of hard nose. And since he only had these [00:26:00] like two examples, he didn't realize you can kind of combine the two. You can be really honest and forthright and say what needs to be said, but you can do it in a kind way.

[00:26:11] Cody: And so I feel like radical honesty sometimes get a, a bad rap. Well, radical 

[00:26:16] Tali: sounds fucking 

[00:26:17] Cody: scary. Yeah. But I think people associate it with, people are like, oh God, your breath is horrible. Like, go brush your teeth. You know? Like, you and I never talk to each other that way. No, those people are rude. Yeah.

[00:26:27] Cody: That's secret. Because we can be completely 100% candorous and honest and, and forthright with each other and have no secrets and no barriers. But we can do it in a loving way and give each other the benefit of the doubt. You know, we've talked about that as, as far as like how it's gonna be received and how you feel about me and those kind of things.

[00:26:45] Cody: And then, . And also do it with kindness because I love you. I would never want to say something that's gonna hurt your feelings. Yeah. So, but 

[00:26:52] Tali: that doesn't mean you should like, live with a lie. Whatever feelings are, you know, coming up for you and have to just keep them to [00:27:00] yourself. Right, 

[00:27:00] Cody: right. If something's lie.

[00:27:01] Cody: Right. Like, if something's bothering me in my old relationship, you know, my previous marriage, I would avoid fights and conflict because I knew if I brought something up that was bothering me, it would only end in a fight. Like, there's no good that's gonna come out of this. So I would just stuff it down and then you build resentment and I, over 20 years, it's like, ugh.

[00:27:21] Cody: You know, like there's no, there's like not even, there's not a lot of love there because you're just building resentment by keeping all that shit 

[00:27:28] Tali: in. Well, and that was something that you and I were also. Explicit in saying that we don't wanna build resentment towards each other. So the honesty was really more of a practice that came out of trying to address things that were uncomfortable or we had friction around immediately.

[00:27:45] Tali: Right. Like to the minute. Right. Do you remember I brought something up once when you were in the middle of coaching a class? Yeah. I remember like putting on my shoes and I don't remember what it was about, but I was. That really pissed me off. Like what you just did there and like, I don't know if I'm interpreting this right, [00:28:00] but this is how I took it.

[00:28:01] Tali: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, don't let it fester. Don't let it wait. 

[00:28:04] Cody: So bring it up. Well, and you and I, again, talking about explicit agreements, you and I had made an agreement to do that. Like we had this conversation. I remember we were standing on the front steps outside of our apartment and we were talking about not wanting resentment to build up in our relationship because we love each other so much and we're so happy.

[00:28:22] Cody: We don't want any little like niggling thing that seems small niggling to like grow and fester and become a big deal later. Uhhuh . And so we made an agreement like toe to toe, looking at each other's in the eyes to say, okay, we're gonna be honest. Forthright, meaning we're not gonna keep something back because we don't wanna be honest about it.

[00:28:45] Cody: And we're going to bring things to the table as fast as possible. And even if we can't articulate what that is, we're still gonna bring it up and say, Hey, I can't articulate what this is right now. Yeah. But just know that to the best of your ability. Yeah. And you can just preface it by like, [00:29:00] I don't know where this is coming from.

[00:29:01] Cody: I'm having this weird feeling, I don't know how to articulate it, but I want you to know this is happening. Yeah. And we've, and we made an agreement, like we made a specific, like, it was almost like a, a verbal agreement, like a contract of that's how we're gonna run our relationship. And so far so good.

[00:29:17] Cody: Mm-hmm. it definitely takes practice, but yes, it does. I'm glad that we remembered that on. . And I think it's carried over to other areas of my life for sure. As far as just, well, just the way I carry dealing with things. Yeah. The way I carry myself. Don't you think around in public, like with other people?

[00:29:32] Cody: I feel, I feel lighter as a result of having that sort of practice of honesty at home. For some reason. It just makes me a little more outgoing in the real world, because I've always been a real introvert, and I think it's kind of flexing that muscle. When you're an introvert, it's like you're hiding stuff.

[00:29:48] Cody: You're, you're protecting yourself, you're avoiding conflict, you're avoiding eye contact, Well, you're avoiding the possibility of being disliked. Ah, yeah. So you don't bring up shit that might cause conflict and, and [00:30:00] you totally 

[00:30:00] Tali: suffer as 

[00:30:01] Cody: a consequence. Right. And so you just walk around sort of like suffering all the time.

[00:30:04] Cody: And, and you and I, having this practice has had a carryover getting back to the theme of the show here into the way I carry myself in the rest of the world. , 

[00:30:14] Tali: you know? Yeah. I definitely feel like I've been much more action oriented as well. You know, when friction comes up with other people or, you know, I wanna change the schedule at my job or what have you, I'm gonna go investigate immediately through conversations with people as opposed to just like stewing on it.

[00:30:33] Tali: Mm-hmm. , like, there's this thing that happens when you stew on any feelings or like misinterpretations that you might have where you create a circus and like that person becomes like a mean bitch and that person, you know, should know what I'm thinking. Like you just start tore, like, create all of these different rules for reality that like really don't exist.

[00:30:55] Tali: Mm-hmm. . And I saw, I don't want to be in that head space for too long because I [00:31:00] know my mind can run amuck. I know that I can make all kinds of assumptions and decisions about people. Mm-hmm. and I can be very harsh with my judgments in that way. And then, , you know, if I actually decide to like, approach it with honesty and be like, Hey, I wanna know like what you meant when you said that, or I just wanna let you know that, you know, this isn't really working for me.

[00:31:18] Tali: I need to make an adjustment to this arrangement. I'm usually like, delighted by how it's received. Yeah, absolutely. And that's because, you know, there's no games, there's no bullshit that's not being detected. Mm-hmm. And that resentment, you know, I think that resentment that you were talking about in your relationship, like that's a two-way street.

[00:31:37] Tali: You can tell when people are on edge. You can tell when things are being withheld from you and if you Oh yeah. That becomes the norm. You become suspicious of everybody. 

[00:31:47] Cody: Right. Yeah. There was a lot of suspicion directed toward me even though there wasn't a lot of cause for like serious suspicion of like infidelity or anything like that.

[00:31:57] Cody: But it, it kind of got to that point just because I was so [00:32:00] closed off. Yeah. I was, I was kind of pissed off and like, Gr like trying to keep the peace in the house. And so I just stuff all this crap inside and it made me seem like a really dishonest, deceitful person who was hiding a bunch of shit. Really what I was hiding was all the baggage

[00:32:16] Tali: Right. But, and anytime I ever feel like you going into that space or me going into that space, we have very similar responses to stress. Mm-hmm. and hurt. You know, I, we both have a tendency to withdraw and I know, and I know that I've told you that when I go to that space, like that's when I need you the most.

[00:32:36] Tali: I need your help to kind of shake me out of it, cuz I don't wanna be there. Yeah. And you haven't explicitly asked for it, but I do it when it comes to you, like, I feel like I really push you sometimes when I can feel you, you know, saying less. Mm-hmm. doing less, whatever. . You do. And it's appreciated after the fact, in the [00:33:00] moment.

[00:33:00] Tali: It's definitely a wrestle in the 

[00:33:01] Cody: moment. Yeah. In the moment. A lot of times I just wanna like hide and I think some of that's just for fear of, I, I don't wanna be a certain way toward you, you know, whether it's grumpy or, I don't know, weird, jealous, whatever it is. You know, there's a lot of, of, of attributes that I don't really wanna possess.

[00:33:24] Cody: Yeah. And when I'm feeling them, like I just, I wanna hide from you, . I totally get that. And when you when you come to me and just are like, what's going on? Like, I love you, baby. Talk to me. And, you know, you're just like really tender about it, but you're also relentless and kind of like, don't stop until I talk.

[00:33:41] Cody: No. 

[00:33:41] Tali: Because I know you'll feel so much better. Yeah. And it's true. And that's maybe, that's an opportunity where like we're not practicing enough or something. Yeah. Well, 

[00:33:50] Cody: I want to give you props because I got to see you practice that just today and several times recently with, today with different friends that you've had like over the last few weeks where you've [00:34:00] had to like have conversations and you weren't sure how to navigate it.

[00:34:03] Cody: But you didn't avoid it, you just went into it. You just went in mm-hmm. . And today, you know, like you had a friend who had kind of soft plans with over the weekend, those plans fell apart. And More than once. More than once. Yeah. It was like change of plans, change of plans, change of plans, cancel plans, and you're feeling kind of blown off.

[00:34:22] Cody: And so 

[00:34:25] Tali: old me would've just been like, I'll just wait it out and wait for them to throw me a 


[00:34:30] Cody: And you were talking about, you know, you came to me and you were like, I don't want to. Petty. I don't wanna be petty, I don't wanna be passive aggressive or crazy bitch. And I don't want to, yeah. I don't wanna like play either side of this game.

[00:34:44] Cody: And so how do I approach this honestly, but with Al also not sounding like a bitch. And so you, you know, you took some time to like figure out how to craft what you wanted to say, but the end, the end result is that you had a conversation and you feel I was totally 

[00:34:58] Tali: rewarded. Right. [00:35:00] I was rewarded. I was rewarded with a phone call and an apology.

[00:35:03] Cody: Yeah. And everything's great. Yeah. And so, but I want to give you props because I know I've seen that growth in you. Like you and I have ha have really hard fought hard and practiced this since the beginning. But now I'm seeing you like stretch yourself to practice it with other people. Thanks. So I just want to give you some credit there.

[00:35:23] Cody: Thanks. 

[00:35:23] Tali: Yeah, it's definitely the kind of person that I wanna be. It does not come naturally at all. But you know, my relationship with you has taught me a lot about what is possible between two people. And yeah. And it's kind of goes back to like what you were saying about just wanting to be authentic.

[00:35:40] Tali: Like that just comes with the territory. Mm-hmm. and yeah. Being able to like draw your line in the sand being like, no, that's actually not okay with me, or This is what I need right now. Like, all of those things are incredibly valid and that shows who we are, that's our character and that's what we're, we're teaching people how [00:36:00] to interact with us that way.

[00:36:01] Tali: Otherwise, what's that phrase? I love it so much. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. Mm-hmm. . And it kind of seems reminiscent to that in a way. Like, if you don't make your opinions, feelings, et cetera, known, then people can do what 

[00:36:19] Cody: they will. Yeah. Well, and you just sort of brushed on something that you and I had talked about somebody.

[00:36:26] Cody: Seems like somebody in your weightlifting team mentioned this, or you read it at that time. Huh? I just remember the time that, but you were you brought up the idea that your reactions and your interactions with other people are teaching them how to interact with you. And so 

[00:36:44] Tali: yeah, I think that's just something that my mom always told me.

[00:36:47] Tali: Like, you treat, you teach people how to treat you. Yeah. I think was the wording. Yeah. So 


[00:36:52] Cody: being, you know, forthright and honest, you can kind of expect some rec reciprocity there that other people are gonna feel more comfortable. 

[00:36:59] Tali: Well, you can't always [00:37:00] expect it. Well, but it doesn't mean that you should, you should have any less integrity with yourself.

[00:37:05] Cody: No, that's, that's for sure. But what I meant by expect it is that you can expect that that could be a result of what you're doing, is that you're gonna see that mirrored back. And if not, Fuck. That's some, yeah, that's some like red flags of, as far as like the type of people you want to have in your 

[00:37:20] Tali: life.

[00:37:20] Tali: Oh yeah. And like, how much investment should you put into this relationship? That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Most definitely. And that's something that I think that's gonna be something that we're learning like for the rest of our lives. That's so hard. You know, people have really challenging relationships with their family members or people who, who are mentors.

[00:37:41] Tali: You know, there's just so much change in a person from moment to moment, and those dynamics have to change along with them. And it's not comfy, it's not pretty, and there's no way to like do it, right? Mm-hmm. . But I feel like honesty is kind of a, a signal of willingness to go there. Yeah. [00:38:00] Yeah. 

[00:38:01] Cody: So what other carryovers did you find?

[00:38:06] Cody: So this 

[00:38:06] Tali: one's actually, this is one topic show . Sure. So this one's kind of timely. It's, it was just recently buck hunting season up here in eastern Oregon. And recently Cody and I went out on the very last day. We went out together initially with our cats. They went out with us. And Gigi, our littlest cats stayed with me.

[00:38:30] Tali: And then Max went around to the other side of the mountain with you, or the other side of the creek, I should say. And you know, I've only had a couple of experiences hunting by myself, and yes, I had a hunting companion of my cat, but I don't necessarily think that counts as like, hunting with somebody.

[00:38:49] Tali: But you know, Hunting obviously is like a newer venture for me. But I had told you earlier that there are some elements to it that I really love, [00:39:00] that I think are really important skills for me. As someone who has been like, medicated for A D H D who cannot handle meditation, you know, I really thrive at like a high frequency.

[00:39:16] Tali: And so when you're hunting, there's a lot of emphasis on stillness, soaking in your surroundings. Mm-hmm. you know, self-reliance the important of safety procedures, like all these things that like do not come naturally to me. Mm-hmm. . For some reason in the scope of hunting, I can really get into it all the way.

[00:39:41] Tali: Meditating sometimes feels just like a chore to me, where it's like, all right, I'm just gonna have to like live through this like 10 minute sentence real quick. Kind of like when you get put in time out. Mm-hmm. , it kind of has like similar feels to me, , but hunting there's an objective, there's, you know, this incredible like, feeling of honor of like being a [00:40:00] part of this like team sport, like quote unquote team sport that this fam the family does to feed ourselves.

[00:40:07] Tali: Mm-hmm. . And yeah, for some reason that I'm hoping that there's gonna be carryover and I'm just saying because it's a newer thing. Mm-hmm. . So I don't know what the carryover is. I just know that I am a different version of myself being out there, and I think it's lovely. I know that that's probably really tough for a lot of people to hear when we're talking about like, What hunting is, you know?

[00:40:33] Tali: But I have a tremendous sense of pride being a part of it. And I feel like I can interact with nature in a way that I don't really think to on a regular basis. I'm very much an indoor girl. But I live in the mountains. I live in the most beautiful place I've ever been to. And hunting has allowed me to connect with that mm-hmm.

[00:40:56] Tali: And so it feels very special to me. And I also really like shooting guns. [00:41:00] So . Mm-hmm. , I guess that's a way of applying it, but I don't wanna go like too far into that, but yeah, that's kind of just an area that I have a feeling will have a lot of carryover, especially when it comes to like actually harvesting something that's gonna be a whole different conversation of like mm-hmm.

[00:41:20] Tali: respect and gratitude and you know, Self-reliance and like, you know, taking care of us or myself, you know? Yeah. In a very practical, real way. Yeah. 

[00:41:37] Cody: No, I think you've, that's where I spiel. I think you've summed up some beautiful things there, especially just the attitude of hunting. On Disney movies, hunters are all evil people who just shoot everything and leave them for dead in the woods.

[00:41:49] Cody: But that's not usually the reality. There are poachers out there assholes, 

[00:41:55] Tali: but I'd say it's much more like the experience depicted on Avatar. [00:42:00] I didn't 

[00:42:00] Cody: see it. You didn't see it, but wait, can I just explain what that means? Okay. So an avatar fuck, I can't even remember the name of the species, but whatever those blue beans when they hunt and as they like, make the final like.

[00:42:20] Tali: Kill, like cut. Mm-hmm. , you know, they like shoot something down and then they like make sure it's really dead. They say something kind of like ritualistic or almost like prayer, like as a way of saying thank you. Yeah. For, you know, the food that we're about to eat, like for their body of being a sacrifice kind of thing.

[00:42:40] Tali: Mm-hmm. . 

[00:42:41] Cody: Yeah. And that goes back to a lot of first, you know, first nation people or you know native Americans and South American tribes and all that. There's a lot of ritual around the hunt and a lot of that is gratitude. You know, like this is sustaining for us and so we thank you for that. Yeah.

[00:42:59] Cody: [00:43:00] So I'm glad that you're in that mindset. I think it's really funny in that whole story you just told, you brushed over the rest of my notes. Did I really? Yeah. And because I had actually forgotten one I was talking about first. At the beginning of the podcast, first order, second order, and third order thinking.

[00:43:16] Cody: Yeah. And I actually put like, as a little footnote here, there's actually a fourth order. Oh. So when it comes to carryover, when you do something that changes who you are. Ooh, I 

[00:43:30] Tali: love that. 

[00:43:31] Cody: And so, and you said that, you said that, you know, like the experience of hunting is like changing who you are, you kind of brushed over it really quickly.

[00:43:39] Cody: But you said that and I just had to chuckle cause it's literally in my notes of that is a type of carryover because when you do something that changes who you are, of course it's gonna carry over to almost every other aspect of your life. You know, when it's helping to sort of change your identity or how you carry yourself in the world.

[00:43:57] Tali: Yeah. You know, I think about this time when I [00:44:00] was in school, I went to a very progressive school in Washington where oddly there was a lot of judgment towards. , all different kinds of different lifestyles. And my school was in Olympia, Washington, which is, you know, there's, I'm trying to think of the neighboring towns, but they're, it's considered pretty rural in those areas.

[00:44:24] Tali: And I remember there was a gal in our class who um, had said like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be missing this and this day because it's hunting season. And like all of the students like lost their shit and they didn't lose their shit in front of her. It was only when she was gone that they were like, that is so fucked up.

[00:44:41] Tali: Mm-hmm. and like now I to, I don't think I had much to say about it because I was also kind of a target in another way. Mm-hmm. with this group of people. Unfortunately. And you know, looking back on that now, like I totally get it. I totally get it. Like I took a morning off [00:45:00] of work to do this cuz it was like our last.

[00:45:02] Tali: Chance Yeah. To go hunting and you know, it's not because we can't feed ourselves in other ways. We absolutely can't. But the reason that we hunt is because we know where the food is coming from. We know what the animal is eating, we know that it's a healthy source of protein. It's also a very, like, what's the word?

[00:45:24] Tali: I don't know about humane is the right word, but in terms of, I think 

[00:45:27] Cody: it is, I think it is humane. You know, people might revolt against hunting because they think it's cruel. And those, my stance on this, people can argue with me if they'd like, and I'd love to have a conversation about it cuz I'm not gonna be an asshole about it.

[00:45:44] Cody: Mm-hmm. . But from my perspective, being more in touch with nature. And when I say that, I'm not trying to sound arrogant. I just mean I've grown up and around this, I've been in the woods, I've spent more time in these mountains than most people who go on [00:46:00] vacation hikes and stuff like that. And they don't understand how nature really works out there.

[00:46:05] Cody: And so they have this impression that animals live this peaceful life. If it weren't for hunters or people who, and die of old age God. Yeah. And they just die peacefully of old age with all their little dear friends standing around them. And, and the reality you have to get mean about it. I'm sorry.

[00:46:22] Cody: The reality is that if a elk or a deer gets to an age where they are starting to get decrepit, it's, it's rare that they even live that long. But if they do and they start to get into like old age decrepitude, they are a target for wolves and coyotes and big cats. Big cats. And they're literally torn apart and eaten while they are still alive.

[00:46:48] Cody: it is gruesome and cruel and most people couldn't even stomach watching it this well, and you don't 

[00:46:54] Tali: even have to go as far as nature . Like we know that there's so much wrong with the [00:47:00] meat industry and how animals are treated in that arena, and I would rather kill my own dinner mm-hmm. than continue to endorse that crap.

[00:47:09] Tali: Yeah. 

[00:47:10] Cody: Yeah. So I just wanted to put that out there. It's kind of off topic, but there's this idea that hunting is less humane, but I just totally disagree. I think if, if I were a deer of all the way that there is to die as a deer being shot and dying quickly within a minute by a hunter is probably the less, like, the least traumatic way possible.

[00:47:33] Cody: Well, so I think there is like a real connection with nature in a very peaceful way in what we're doing. And folks who 

[00:47:38] Tali: don't hunt, you know, I didn't know anything about this until I joined your family. There's a lot of regulation. Yeah. When it comes to like, when it can happen, how much you can hunt and what you can hunt with.

[00:47:50] Tali: Like, there's so many effing variables that, you know, we're not out there like killing a deer a day. Mm-hmm. not possible, not legal. So I [00:48:00] think there's also like a misconception that it's just like a free for all and it's just, there's a lot of like excess. I mean, there are people who trophy hunt and those people.

[00:48:09] Tali: Have issues . 

[00:48:11] Cody: Well, and, but that's what I meant by the Disney movie thing. Cause if you watch Bambi, it's just like they're shooting at everything that moves. They didn't eat Bambi's mom. Like, they just, like, if a, if a squirrel moves, it gets shot. If a bird moves it gets shot. If a, like all the animals are freaking out and running and then there's a forest fire and it's just like this, like, oh my God.

[00:48:28] Tali: Yikes. . It's not quite the downward, downward spiral that you just mentioned, , but yeah, but it's also like very serious business. Like, you know, I was showing off, I got a new rifle for myself this year, which is so cool. I definitely feel like a part of the family now because Before, because you got your own gun?

[00:48:47] Tali: Yes. Well, there was only one rifle that, like a handful. women could really only work with, because rifles can be really heavy. Smaller bodied people. Smaller bodied people, yeah. Mm-hmm. . And so you know, it would [00:49:00] kind of always be a toss up of like, who gets to use this rifle? And I was just like, well damn it, like I've been looking forward to this all year, been thinking about it all year.

[00:49:09] Tali: I've paid all this money for my license, my tags, you know, planning my weekends for it and then not being able to go kind of blue. And so, yeah, I got my own rifle this year and I was showing it to my dad, and of course it made him a little bit nervous, even though he has owned firearms himself, he just did not expect that his daughter would ever be a, a, a carrier.

[00:49:33] Tali: But yeah, you know, he was like, make sure it's unloaded every time you go home. And just like reminding me of all the important to-dos. And, you know, I'm a person who like, Has trouble remembering to take their vitamins or go as many months without flossing or, you know, let's an a taillight go like for far too long, you know, until I get pulled over or something.

[00:49:57] Tali: So, you know, I feel like [00:50:00] this is gonna be not only a, an arena where I get to like be a part of nature and like all of the stuff that's like, very hunting related, but like, I'm also gonna be acquiring some new skills or maybe not skills, practices that could very well carry over. Like, I'm just looking at how messy this office is and it's like, well if I just pay attention to like, procedures a little bit more, like mm-hmm.

[00:50:25] Tali: maybe things won't feel so chaotic sometimes. Yeah. 

[00:50:28] Cody: Well we're about to get a big lesson in that in business too. How do you mean? Because we just sort of bought into. mentorship program that a very 

[00:50:36] Tali: organized 

[00:50:37] Cody: mentorship program. Yeah. Which implements lots and lots and lots of systems for our business for accountability.

[00:50:44] Tali: So yeah. You and I are really like casual, easygoing people. Mm-hmm. . And I think sometimes that is a strength and I think it can also be a detriment. And I think with getting a business off the ground, I look [00:51:00] forward to having that kind of structure because further down the line we'll be able to kind of decide, well, what do we wanna keep and what do we wanna let go of?

[00:51:07] Tali: Yeah. But it seems like right now that's something that, that's a kind of support that we really want and need. Yeah. 

[00:51:13] Cody: So I had mentioned that in your one little speech there, you just brush on all the rest of my notes. Right. So the only one I had left was meditation. You talked about, oh gosh. Being in the woods.

[00:51:22] Cody: I should, should 

[00:51:23] Tali: probably just exit now cause I don't have a lot to say. But it's funny that, you know, you talked about. , it's not funny, but you had talked about being medicated at one point for adhd. Yeah, and one of the carryovers that I wrote down from meditation is that even just the practice of meditation, even though you might feel like you're sucking at it, is like it has a carryover that helps you to increase, increase your attention span in other areas.

[00:51:50] Cody: So I find myself more easily able to focus on things that maybe it's something I don't really wanna do, or maybe it's something a little bit mundane, but I've sort of flexed that [00:52:00] muscle of keeping my mind on something for longer. Like it's a practice. And so it has carryover there. It also has carryover in the first thing I really noticed about meditation back when I was really consistent.

[00:52:14] Cody: I've been struggling with this new job, but I'm trying, I meditated this morning. But there was a time when I had a streak of, I think it was like 75 days or so of meditation every morning. Or every evening. And I sort of, it was almost like something came on in me. It was like a weird thing where the carryover was natural.

[00:52:34] Cody: Like I didn't really have to try so much mm-hmm. . But during the day, I remember being in conversation with somebody and thinking ironically, that I'm more present in the conversation. And I, of course, having that thought took me outta the conversation. But , but I was aware of like, it's almost like I was like watching myself and this individual from a third perspective.

[00:52:58] Cody: Like, I was watching the [00:53:00] conversation really engaged and I felt a sense of presence that I hadn't allowed myself to be in very often because of my own insecurities and shit. And being really introverted. Uhhuh, , I really suck at small talk and like one-on-one conversation, unless it's professional, you know, if I'm coaching that's, that's different, but.

[00:53:19] Cody: Small talk or casual talk has always been a challenge, and meditating actually helped me to feel just more sort of like in the moment and present. 

[00:53:25] Tali: Interesting. Yeah. It's funny that that is your your experience because you had also mentioned about how I was medicated. I remember the first day that I was medicated very, very vividly.

[00:53:38] Tali: I was in about the sixth or seventh grade and it was Mother's Day and we went out with Joyce and her kids and my sister, my mom and I, to a place on Beavertown, Hillsdale Highway. At least I think that's where it is, like Uno, that curve where that storage unit was that we were helping my dad move [00:54:00] out of.

[00:54:00] Tali: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It was on that street where I had like that really horrible date. It was on . It was a nearby building. Anyway, I just remember like it was Adderall that I was. Prescribed. And I remember coming home that day and being like, mom, I was listening to Joyce talk earlier, and I was like able to pay attention to everything she said, and I remembered everything she said.

[00:54:24] Tali: Retention was really hard for me. Like in school I could read a paragraph, no problem. But then you would ask me like, what did you just read? And I'd be like, I don't fucking know. Yeah. That's a different part of your brain. Yeah. So that was something that was really hard for me and one of the reasons that you know, I was in counseling and like was prescribed medication and stuff and it really, really helped with attention deficit disorders.

[00:54:50] Tali: So it's interesting that the experiences were same, but the tools that we used were so different. Yeah. It's weird because when I hear people talk about meditation, I'm like, wow, that's a really sexy [00:55:00] quality of yours. But when it comes to me having to do it, . It also might be one of those things that, I say this all the time that I might have just been telling myself that I hate for so long that I've just grown to believe it.

[00:55:11] Tali: And even when I do it, I know I've been like, Hey honey, I did five minutes of meditation today. Mm-hmm. , I'm really proud of myself. But the thought of doing it is kind of like standing in line for a rollercoaster. It's worse than the rollercoaster. Yeah. I think it's agony. 

[00:55:25] Cody: I think a lot of that is the narrative that you've told yourself for so long.

[00:55:28] Cody: Because I know that, I hate being aware of it , because you, yeah. But I guess that's the first step. But you. . I remember a time when we were coaching at the same gym together and we were having these split shift days where we'd have this weird, like lag time in the middle where didn't have enough time to go home, but we didn't really have enough time to, we'd nap.

[00:55:48] Cody: Yeah. In a closet. Sometimes we'd have like an hour and a half and it's just not worth sitting in traffic for an hour and a half. But we wanted to be together, so I remember sitting out on the curb outside in the sun. Mm-hmm. . And it was your suggestion that we [00:56:00] meditate together and we, and we used my app and I remember you really enjoyed it and like really you enjoyed the prompts that he was giving in the app and like the, the method of it all.

[00:56:11] Cody: And what was 

[00:56:11] Tali: that app called again? 

[00:56:12] Cody: Headspace. Headspace. And So I remember it was like an enjoyable experience for you. And then you talk about hating it all the time. , 

[00:56:20] Tali: it's an old shoe. Yeah. What can I say? But there's something about the verbiage too, and the way that they talk to you during meditation.

[00:56:27] Tali: Well, that's what another thing is. You know, like when I talk about yoga, I kind of have a similar experience. And there was this place in Portland, a yoga studio called Yoga Punks, and they'd play punk music while doing yoga. I never got the chance to go , but it just so spoke to me like, that's how I wanna experience it,

[00:56:45] Tali: So I'm wondering if there is meditation while listening to punk music could be available to 

[00:56:49] Cody: me. Could be. I think what I was gonna say, now that you bring that up, it's like you're, you're taking my thoughts before I go out. Sorry. It's okay. I was just thinking that [00:57:00] perhaps you just haven't met the right one yet.

[00:57:01] Cody: You know, it's kind of like you need to, there are so many, many hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different schools of thought or methods or whatever for meditation that perhaps you just haven't found what. is comfortable for you to be introduced it to it because I, I've had that experience myself with Headspace.

[00:57:19] Cody: There's a lot of, I think I'm not, I'm not gonna get into the terminology cause I'm gonna mess it up, but basically there's a lot of focus on like counting or breathing or like focusing on something like that. Or a feeling or something like that. And then I also subscribe to the Waking Up app by Sam Harris.

[00:57:41] Cody: And he is very the thing that that kind of bothers me about it is that, and I'm a fan of his for the most part, but in his, many of his meditations, it's almost like he's trying to get you to someplace that he has been and he's done like these months long silent retreats in [00:58:00] Tibet and shit like that.

[00:58:01] Cody: Like he's at a different place in his ability to meditate. You're not being met where you're at. Yes. And so a lot of times I feel like his prompts are like, , try to identify yourself, like where is yourself? And it's like, what the fuck are you talking about dude? Like, I'm too far, too far. It's like too much.

[00:58:18] Cody: I don't know. I'm out of this. Like I'm just sitting here thinking about you cuz that's really funny. I don't know if I can call this meditation. Oh, it's hilarious. So I guess my point is like, maybe just haven't like dialed in a good introduction for yourself to do. I 

[00:58:31] Tali: haven't found my flavor yet.

[00:58:32] Tali: Everything feels, there are certain like woowoo things that really resonate with me and most meditation. Woo Woo. Does not resonate with me. Yeah, well there's two. It's a little too, you know what it makes, it sounds like I love you sister, but you know this already that sometimes like when my sister is trying to like talk me off a ledge or calm me down or something, like, as I'm raging she talks to me in this certain [00:59:00] voice that like only makes it worse.

[00:59:02] Tali: Like it just makes me 

[00:59:04] Cody: crazy cuz your face is red right now. Trying not to cry. Cause funny, she's cry. She's got tears in her eyes and her face is red as she's telling this story, . 

[00:59:12] Tali: She has a way of like talking me down and really like soft 

[00:59:16] Cody: voice the more soothing she tries to be. Yeah. Aggravated. You get 

[00:59:20] Tali: crazy

[00:59:22] Tali: Anyway, that's how most meditation sounds to me.

[00:59:30] Cody: oh man. 

[00:59:33] Tali: So I can't say I know what the carryover is just yet on that, but it sounds like you, you you had a lot more to say about 

[00:59:41] Cody: that than I did. I've experienced some And there's one more I wanted to touch on cause there's two it kind of relates to the different flavors that we're, that I just brought up.

[00:59:49] Cody: But there's two meditations I've been brought through recently that had to do with kind of emotional or like feeling meditations [01:00:00] and one was sort of bringing up a negative emotion and then saying to yourself, you know, and this is like taking place over the course of 10 or 20 minutes, or whatever the meditation is.

[01:00:11] Cody: That the first thing you say to yourself as sort of a mantra is like, I'm angry, for instance, identify it. And you're just, yeah. You're just sort of identifying that feeling, but you're also like identifying with it. Like, I'm angry. I am angry. Interesting. 

[01:00:28] Tali: Aren't so many meditations prompting you. Sorry, just 

[01:00:31] Cody: a second.

[01:00:31] Cody: Let me get there because then a couple minutes later he changes it to saying like I feel angry. Okay. Okay. I'm, I get it. And then, and you're just repeating that for a few times and you're trying to identify what it feels like to feel angry and then

[01:00:47] Cody: Shoot, I'm forgetting what all the prompts are, but basically it's kind of like further and further distancing your identity with the feeling. So it's like I recognize that I'm feeling, that I feel angry, and then it's like, [01:01:00] I accept that I feel angry. I'm screwing it up. But basically the prompts kind of got more and more distance from identifying you as the anger.

[01:01:08] Cody: Sure. And to the point where at toward the end of the meditation, you're sort of like a third party observer looking down at yourself. Experiencing this emotion and then being, and then having some acceptance around it. Yeah. And I thought it was interesting. I haven't practiced it enough to really feel like or to know how that might carry over, but it was intriguing.

[01:01:29] Cody:


[01:01:30] Tali: have some carryover, you know, we were talking about this exchange I had with a friend earlier today with the cancellation, and I was getting annoyed and a little like upset and disappointed over it. And this, you know, I think it would've been easy, you know, I got a phone call, apology, and it would've been, I felt like maybe I could've like, articulated more, like, yeah, I was disappointed or annoyed or whatever, but I actually felt really fine talking on [01:02:00] the phone and being like, yeah, it's actually all good.

[01:02:02] Tali: And I think the reason is, is even though I had those negative feelings before, I still. , like conducted myself in the way that I wanted to and felt good about. Mm-hmm. . And so that allowed me to kind of separate from the emotions a little bit too, just knowing that I have power to move through it. Mm-hmm.

[01:02:22] Tali: gracefully as opposed to having to act out on 

[01:02:26] Cody: it. Yeah. And one of the things that they're teaching in these meditations is not, not that you're trying to distance yourself from the emotion in a way that is trying to ignore it or something. Yeah. It's not denial. It's not denial. It's more acceptance of it.

[01:02:40] Cody: And also the recognition that emotion is transitory. Hmm. Always major, like no matter what's going on, no matter how devastated you feel or how elated you feel, or like no, no. Amount of intensity means that it's permanent. Yeah. Like it's always transitory and often it's [01:03:00] transitory. Transitory in a very rapid way.

[01:03:03] Cody: Like moments, not even minutes. You know, like yeah, you can feel super, super intense about something and literally two minutes later just be like laughing it off. That also 

[01:03:10] Tali: happened earlier today with the mentorship sign up. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, yo-yoing all over the place. Yeah. 

[01:03:18] Cody: Excitement and then some like, kind of high on a low and then, what do they call it?

[01:03:22] Cody: Buyer's remorse. Buyer's remorse. like, oh my God, what did we just do? Yeah. And you and I, I've experienced that with you a lot lately too, cuz we've been through some major, major changes in our relationship and it's been hard, but there, those hard moments are transitory. And even in the moment that I was going through it, I knew that like, that's great.

[01:03:40] Cody: I'm not, I'm not gonna keep feeling like this. And I, I remember telling you that, like I know that this is probably gonna. I know this is probably gonna come back , first of all. But I also know it's gonna go away and my hope is that it's probably gonna go back and come, come back and go away less and less frequently until you sort of 

[01:03:56] Tali: phase Yeah.

[01:03:57] Tali: You'll you'll become more 

[01:03:57] Cody: resilient. Yeah. And so [01:04:00] even in the moment of intensity, I could recognize that 

[01:04:02] Tali: that was probably, that's amazing. Cuz you're, you're not your feelings, you're just not, they're birds in the sky. 

[01:04:08] Cody: Yeah. You're not even your thoughts. I mean, you're kind of above all that really. It's all, all just little pieces and components.

[01:04:15] Tali: Well that's when it gets really interesting. It's a try on all kinds of things. It's when I think it's a real trap when you feel at the mercy of it.

[01:04:22] Cody: Is bug season

[01:04:29] Tali: Look at my laugh 

[01:04:30] Cody: waves. We gotta get uh, , we gotta get the video feed up so y'all can see what we, 

[01:04:33] Tali: oh my gosh, I can't wait. I really do wanna start videotaping this 

[01:04:37] Cody: podcast. Yeah. So we have a beautiful studio. It's a little messy right now, but and it needs a few finishing touches, but we've got sound panels and dark purple walls and it's pretty awesome.

[01:04:47] Cody: But we also live on a ranch, and so the reality is even though we're in a beautiful room that's all finished out, we're always camping. We are also in the middle of the woods. And when you're in the middle of the woods, certain seasons are just denoted by certain things. [01:05:00] And right now it's bug season.

[01:05:01] Cody: Yeah. These 

[01:05:02] Tali: pine Beatles are just effing everywhere and they're just, they're really loud. Yeah, 

[01:05:07] Cody: they're really loud. They sound like bees when they fly, but then they're a little harmless beetle when they land. But, I don't know if you're picking it up in the mic, but they're annoying. Gosh, I hope they're not.

[01:05:15] Cody: That's all my notes for today. Those are all my notes too. Okay, so this is a huge topic though, and like we said, this is sort of like the meta topic of the entire podcast series that we're doing with the philosophy of fitness is taking principles from fitness and seeing what the carryover is in other areas of your life.

[01:05:35] Cody: I guess the final thing I wanted to touch on that I didn't really write down, but it's just on my mind all the time, which is to try to develop to, to try to search out first of all, practices that might be a good fit for you that also have carryover in other areas of your life. I've talked about a morning routine before, and in the morning routine, it's easy to just stack up [01:06:00] things because they might feel good or they might.

[01:06:02] Cody: sound like a good idea, but if that practice isn't having a carryover to other areas of your life, then you could just be spinning your wheels and having like a four hour morning routine. Mm-hmm. , that just doesn't accomplish much. Yeah. 

[01:06:14] Tali: I, I was gonna say, you know, there's the flip side. You should also be assessing like what isn't having any carryover or negative carryover, 

[01:06:21] Cody: right?

[01:06:22] Cody: Yeah. There might be carryover in cons, in consequences that you didn't anticipate, for sure. Yeah. So I guess I implore people to not only join the conversation and, you know, jump on our website and share what you might have ideas on. You know, we just barely touched on things like openness and vulnerability, meditation and then of course exercise and fitness.

[01:06:44] Cody: But what things in your life are you practicing intentionally that has a large carryover to other areas of your life? And so today's, even though we only touched on a few topics, I think it's just. , those are meant to be examples of the concept that we're talking about. Mm-hmm. [01:07:00] of developing conscious awareness and practices that have huge implications and carry over to even seemingly unrelated 

[01:07:08] Tali: things.

[01:07:08] Tali: Yeah. And I think also just respecting the idea that everything you're doing is, has some sort of implementation on you as a person. Yeah. And that shouldn't be taken lightly. Yeah. You know, 

[01:07:22] Cody: a couple of books that come to mind, and I'm gonna put these up even though I haven't read them, but I've had friends that read them.

[01:07:28] Cody: Mm-hmm. and I've, I've heard podcasts about them, so I feel like I can recommend 'em, even though I haven't read the books. : Atomic Habits by, I think that one's James Clear. I'll get the authors right and in the show notes. And the other one is, Keystone Habits is another book that I'll link to. Those both have to do with habits where you make a habit of doing one thing that just sets you up for success, even a lot of in another, a lot of other areas.

[01:07:54] Cody: Meal prep, we like to use the term keystone practices [01:08:00] because yeah, we in a past podcast have delineated the difference between a habit and a practice. Whereas a habit can be something that's sort of on autopilot. And a practice is an intentional practice, which means it looks like a habit. You're maybe something you're doing every day or every Saturday or whatever.

[01:08:17] Cody: It's, it's rhythmic but it has intention behind it. It's not just autopilot. And so I am a big fan of both. I think they're both important, but search out keystone practices where one practice that you're putting effort in can have an effect on so many other areas of your life. So that's all I got.

[01:08:36] Cody: Awesome. Wanna sign off? 

[01:08:38] Tali: Yeah. Okay. Shabbat Shalom, everybody. 

[01:08:40] Cody: Shabbat Shalom. And We'll see you in a week. Hmm. Thanks for listening. We appreciate having meeting. 

[01:08:48] Tali: This episode was produced by Tali Zari and Cody Limbaugh. Check out our writing, coaching services and home studying adventures at live all your

[01:08:57] Tali: For show notes, resources [01:09:00] mentioned, or to submit a question or contribution, click on the podcast tab.