013 The Power Of Association: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 6

It's common knowledge in fitness circles that your environment and the people you work out with can help make or break your fitness success. But when it comes to our personal or professional lives, most of us tend to grossly underestimate the power of association. 

"You're the average of the five people you spend the most time with,” 
- Jim Rohn

In this week's episode of The Philosophy of Fitness podcast, Tali and Cody help drive home the importance of this idea, as well as strategies for leveraging The Power Of Association.

0:45 Icebreaker: What's your most nagging injury?

5:44 Kelly Starrett https://thereadystate.com/

6:24 What NOT to do when you're injured

9:54 Study: (not the exact one mentioned but showing similar results with immobilized wrists) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5972467/

and another on the topic: Resting injuries prolongs recovery: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK70807/

11:11 INTRO: The Power Of Association

12:29 Applies to thee but not for me...

15:03 Wake-up call! Do you have people in your life you admire?

18:03 In-person influences vs. media

19:36 Put yourself in a community of people who are where you want to be

22:40 Positive association doesn't have to be an echo chamber

25:22 Using your social contexts to explore your values

27:01 It's important to ACT on the knowledge of The Law Of Association

32:42 Changing your context to change yourself

37:15 The downside of "accountability buddies"

39:59 The upside of "peer pressure"

41:01 Using vulnerability as pressure to level up

43:22 "if you want an accountability buddy or to make a change, I would try to not find other people who are wanting to make the same change. I would try to find people who have already made that kind of change, cuz that's the power of association. They will rub off on you."

44:16 Community can not only help lift you when you fall but getting back up is an opportunity for you to inspire others as well

48:10 To make a change in yourself, re-examine your values. What is more important to you than the thing that is holding you back?

50:07 Discover the le

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Transcript

Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh and I'm t Zari and you're listening to the Philosophy of Fitness podcast on the Lyceum network.

I have an ice break for today. I like coming up with these . I know you do. . There's something weird about just starting on the introduction, so I think it's just. More comfy for me if we start chatting about something to begin with. It's our podcast. It's true. We can do whatever we want. So I know this could be kind of a runaway train, but what is your most persistent nagging injury?

Hmm. You can only pick one . Well, I guess I would have to say in my low back because I heard it when I was like 17. It's still from then, but I don't know. See, that's kind of the question is whether that's still the original injury or if it's just sort of like years of various forms of, you know, compensation, re-injury, that type of thing.

Sure. It always starts with something though. Yeah. So that story I was loading. I worked at a tire shop at the time and. It was, I remember it very well. It was like eight degrees below zero Fahrenheit, and it's, it was early enough in the winter, like winter just came on fast that year, so it was super cold.

But we had, Were you here in enterprise? Yes. Okay. I believe it. Then  and it came on so fast that people didn't have their stud tires on yet, and so we had like three or four days worth of backed up clients, you know, customers, whatever. And so we're running and running and working like 12, 13 hour days or something ridiculous.

And so I was super cold, super tired, and then loaded a logging truck tire into the back of a pickup. . Real big tire. Yeah. And I, And really cold. Yeah. And there's a technique for doing it, which is usually works really well where you kind of roll it towards yourself. You're like, you're facing the back of the pickup.

Okay. You roll it toward yourself and as it gets momentum, you sort of pull it up onto your knee and roll it up your body. And then you use your need to kind of like boost it up onto the tailgate and then push it back up on, And it works really well. It's really smooth and it, it's a good technique, but I was just so cold and really stiff.

And when I did that, I just wrenched my low back, I twisted wrong or something. And it was like one of those knife in the back kind of situations. Were you done for the day or did you keep going? Mm. Probably kept going. I was 17

Well that just reminds us all to warm up. Yeah. No matter what you're doing. So 30 years ago, Oh jeez.  mine is my hip, and that is not anything instantaneous. I cannot pinpoint it to any particular story, but it's just, I think, consistent movement in the same patterns in weightlifting. Mm-hmm.  Where it really just nas at me sometimes, and I actually thought that maybe it was going away in the last couple of years.

And now that I've gotten back into weightlifting, it's come right back. And it feels like not soreness, but just like a dull, dull pain that radiates all the way down to my foot. And sometimes that whole leg will become kind of numb. So it's just really uncomfortable. Mm-hmm.  and I used to go to physical therapy and A chiropractor really consistently to fix it.

And it's never really gone away. So that's just my lot in life. . Yeah. It's surprising to me because you're really flexy, like you got, you can do the splits, you know, front splits, side splits, uhhuh, you can do a forward fold. You know, you've got good squat debts. Like everything is Yeah. For wonky. You know how like they can be rotated Oh yeah.

In different kinds of ways and tilted and stuff. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with that. And I think if I was maybe more thoughtful or , if I gave my so as maybe some more attention or some of those kind of longer muscles through my trunk, maybe like my obliques and things might ease up some of the tension.

Mm-hmm. . Cause I think it might be more of like a tilting thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's always really hard to, to figure out where it's coming from cuz it feels like it's really, really deep in there. Isn't it interesting how, as a coach it's sometimes difficult to like, fix these problems in yourself, but then you can have more success when you're fixing other people?

I know. That's been my, my thing like over the years I've helped a lot of people get over injuries that they thought were like irreversible and you know, I'll come up with some program and they follow it and it's successful. And then for myself, I just. Maybe it's cuz I don't follow my own advice. . Well you know that writing your own programming is incredibly hard.

Yeah. For a lot of reasons. Especially follow through and accountability. Yeah, I, one of that was one of my favorite things about coaching is I loved it when people came up to me with all sorts of tweaks and things and I'd be like, I've got something for you. Yeah. I was a really big fan of Kelly Starrett and just, I used to run my own mobility program when I was working at 5 0 3, which was so fun.

Mm-hmm. . And yeah, you're right, especially now. My habits have gotten a lot worse when it comes to my own mobility. I don't really wanna talk about it more cuz I don't wanna like, encourage other people to do it too. , I I am gonna go on a little rant though, since we're on this subject. I told you a beer runaway train.

Yeah, that's okay. But this injury should probably be its own episode, don't you think? It probably is. I'm sure it will be. I think it is about like bouncing back stronger and maybe being smarter. Yeah. This is less about the philosophy of fitness though, and this is just coming from a coach to anyone who's listening.

There's been a long standing. Well, okay, there's a joke about it. I'll just start with the joke. . When the doc, when the guy goes to the doctor and his, his shoulder is really hill and he is like, Man, this shoulder's just killing me, Doc. I can't, I can't raise my arm. And he's like, tried to go like this and he raises his arm slowly in front of him and is, Oh, wince is in pain.

And he's like, What should I do? And the doctor's like, Don't do that. , don't raise your arm. Like that was the only thing the doctor could say. And oh, and that's, that's not a funny joke. It's not a funny joke, but it's like real life. That's kind of the crap that you hear. And I, and I don't mean to disparage anyone individually who's out there, but after having coached for as long as I have, and I've worked with people with all kinds of injuries, both coming into the gym or happening while I was coaching it.

Not in the moment, but you know, happening in their life as they were training with me. Training, Yeah. They would go to a doctor and the doctor, it's very consistent advice. Don't do this. Don't, don't squat, don't lunge, don't move, don't, you know, skip the gym for two weeks, blah, blah, blah. And no, never the two weeks.

Yeah. I'm telling you, two weeks to death end. From my own experience and with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of clients, I mean, I can actually say that now. It's been many hundreds of clients I've worked with. Those people who continue to work out, heal.  Like exponentially faster than people who take time off for sure.

And sometimes people who take time off is, is a recipe for chronic. Injury. I mean, I, I think it's the worst advice ever and I understand where it comes from because it's like if something hurts, you don't wanna do it. Mm-hmm. . And so it's a natural in instinctual thing to just sort of hold that arm close to you and not move it it in that kind that way.

Yeah, absolutely. And so your body starts to adapt to the non-movement. If you don't use it, you lose it. That's right. And it's not only that principle, but I have another theory which I have yet to see studies on or anything. So if, if anyone knows of any, you can point 'em my way. Otherwise, maybe this needs to be done.

But my theory is when you work out the adaptation process from working out, the whole point of working out is that you are producing a stress on your body.  that it reacts to your body reacts to stress, and so when with the stress of working out your body reacts by releasing certain hormones and synthesizing protein in certain ways, and just a whole cascade of bodily functions that come into play to make you stronger or more limb or more agile, or whatever it is.

Mm-hmm. , those same hormones, if you think about it, if you're breaking down muscle tissue in a workout on a microscopic level, and then those hormones come into repair that tissue, those are the same hormones you need to repair. Injury. Injury, Yeah. It's the same thing. And so by working out, even if you're not able to work out the particular injury, if it's just so severe that you know you can't move your shoulder at all or something like that, coming in and getting a vigorous workout in, in a safe way, using the other shoulder will absolutely help you heal faster.

Oh yeah. Well, there have been studies that. Regarding that, there are, there is a study like training in your mind and, you know, mentally taking yourself through training or using the other side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I might in the show notes, I say might cuz I haven't, we're still learning. And this is a very new podcast.

Yeah. I can't quite rely on it yet. If I can figure out how to get the time in the detailed show notes. I'll link to the study if I can find it. But I remember running, I say, you know, I might, because this study is old, I've been Yeah, dig it up. Yeah. It's from more than 10 years ago. But they did a study with volleyball athletes who all had I believe sprained angles.

And half of them were, well, they were all casted or they all had a boot on or some sort of immobilizing device, but half of the cohort that was injured exercised on the good foot and the other half avoided any movement of the good side even. And so they just laid up. Yeah. They just basically laid up and rested it out.

And the people who worked out their good side actually gained function faster in the injured side, even though it was in a cast. Mm-hmm. . So it's not the movement of the injury, even specifically, It's also, it's what I was talking about that, that hormone, the hormones. Yeah. The blood flow. And I think even some nervous system response, like if you're moving one ankle, your, your brain is gonna be like, Oh, ankle movement.

We need that. You know? And so, My theory is even that it actually sends specific things to the injured side as well. Totally. So, anyway, short rant off topic, , but there's your icebreaker. Cool. My mood is coming up. Good. I can tell you sound a lot more energized. Alright, so today's episode is the Power of Association and we're gonna explore things like gym culture participating in teams and our own progress in those settings.

Yeah. Where to begin, ? Well, I think that one of the easiest carryovers on this being the philosophy of fitness podcast where, you know, we're gonna look at the, the broader life lessons that can be taken from the specific fitness domain. I think the most obvious one here is the power of association.

That first line. In a lot of success. Books and teaching and self-help and that kind of thing. It's the power, the, I think it's referred to sometimes as the law of association, which means you be, it sounds hardcore , you become very much like the five people you spend the most time with. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.  It's not so much that birds, if a feather flock together, it's that if you get in with the flock, you become like the flock.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I can ex I can see that happening currently just with my coworkers. Mm-hmm.  I can feel and tell when they're mannerisms or their like the way that they're animated has rubbed off on me. Mm-hmm. , when it happens, I notice it, and it hasn't come from anywhere else. It's just spending so much time with certain people.

Yep. It happens quickly. . It's an interesting aspect, and I'm sure there's some cognitive bias that has a name for this, but I can describe it, which is whenever we hear things like this, like, oh, people become like those, they surround themselves with, there's always this sort of knee jerk reaction to think other people become like people that they hang out with, but not me.

I'm not influenced by that. You know, I can rise above it and they can hang out with shitty friends or in bars or, you know, whatever. Mm-hmm.  and think that they're not acting like everybody else that they're hanging out with and bad news. You're just as susceptible to it and I am just as susceptible to it.

So I think it's a really important carryover lesson that you can take from gym culture. You. And the power of association is that that applies to every aspect of your life, and that includes friends, social media, the stuff you watch, the read, the books you read. Mm-hmm. , like all these things really do influence you and it may not be as evident as you have recognized it in yourself because sometimes it's not instant and sometimes it's not dramatic.

And that slow boil can really change you over time without your knowledge. Well, I think I've been like hyper sensitive to it. This is something that you and I have talked about many times over and it's one of the reasons that I've been so hungry to get back into athletics is because the community aspect was so influential in my life and I really felt like I was peaking, not just physically, but just in my confidence too, you know, socially I've You know, as a young person was very, very shy.

Also felt like I like being cool was the most important thing in the world, which put me in a lot of situations and had gave me a lot of friends that, you know, I'm not friends with anymore now for a reason. Mm-hmm.  and really finding my tribe in weightlifting and now being away from that tribe and living somewhere else and being a different age.

I know how important that is. So I've definitely been eager to figure out the kinds of people that I wanna spend my time with now. Mm-hmm. , because I know of, of that impact. Yeah. And I think this can even be used in a very intentional way as a tool. Like not to use other people. That's not what I mean, but just, you know, if I want to take on certain mannerisms, if I want to be a more disciplined person, a more energetic person, you know, if I want to be more articulate.

I should try to find ways to associate with people who have, who possess the qualities that I'm trying to develop. Totally, totally. It makes me think of a story that my mom used to tell me. She's been in healthcare administration for most of my life, and she would attend a lot of conferences and things like that.

And I'm pretty sure this was related to work, but she refers to a story that she had to reflect in an exercise of the people in her life who she admires. And I'm not quite sure at what point in time this was in her life, but I'm pretty sure it was before she was divorced. That she didn't really have anybody in her life at the time that she aspired to be like.

And that was a huge wake up call in terms of association and also just having exposure to like what's possible. Mm-hmm.  Oh yeah, that's a huge point for sure, because. We can put a lot of limits on ourselves just through our imagination. But when you see other people achieving certain things that you didn't know were possible or you haven't even been exposed to.

Yeah. It's like really mind opening. Yes. You know, I have friends like that. I have friends who travel and do all kinds of weird, exciting things that, you know, in my thirties, I thought, well, that's for a different class of people, you know? Yeah. And now I have friends that are, that live lifestyles like that.

I'm like, Wow, that's way more approachable than I thought it was. To live like that. Yeah. And I think it can be something that you incorporate in your life, whether it's like reading certain books or following somebody online. But I think it's gonna be all the more impactful if it's actually happening, if you're actually having an interaction with this person.

These are actually people who you're spending time with. Yeah. I think about that a lot. In the meetups that you used to go to. Mm-hmm. , I forget what they're called, but the idea of it's awesome. Like just to, what were they called? I think this was the Neuroscience Geek Meetup and so Oh, so it was through Meetup?

Yeah, it was through Meetup. Yeah. And what they would do is they'd bring in professors, authors, research scientists, all, you know, a lot of those people are really happy to share what they do cuz they love what they do. Mm-hmm.  and they don't have to be paid necessarily for it. And so we would get together, there's probably 30 to 40 people that would show up to that.

That's rad. And it was almost like a little college classroom of 30, 40 people who were just loving geeking out on neuroscience. And most of us were not students or scientists, we were just like, Wow, this is really cool stuff, you know? Mm-hmm. . But the energy were, would there be speakers or was it just like everyone's kind of floating around cocktail hours?

No, so they would bring in a different speaker a month Oh, okay. Per month. And they'd give a presentation on the research that they do, or the latest findings in some niche, you know, and it was like, it was just really cool. But then it would be like, Also have a beer hang out, talk. You know, it was very lax and open format, so Well, so it doesn't feel like school.

Yeah. Like this is just a cool conversation to have with like-minded people. Yeah. Or people who are interested in the same thing. So you and I, that we have both brought up books and podcasts and things like that. Podcasts I think are a really interesting thing because they're really intimate. Like when, when you hear conversations, especially long form conversations like we're attempting to do here.

Mm-hmm. , you know, it's almost like somebody sitting in the room and listening to us. They're not getting to interject. But I think over time you're gonna really get to know somebody. If you're listening to us consistently, you're gonna get to know us, feel like you get to know us. But I just wanna point out that, not to sound too woo woo, but it's just an obvious thing that is, it's undeniable that if you go to a live music show, it is an entirely different experience than listening to an album.

Or of any kind, you can watch a concert on tv. It's not the same as being at the concert. It's the same with public speaking. It's the same with your friends. And so the books, you know, we both mentioned like books in, in other ways of influencing yourself. Yeah. But I don't think anything is as powerful as being present with another human being.

Well, I think it's important also to point out that being with the, being in the room at the show, at a speaker, at a table sitting, talking to somebody, that's a much higher level of investment. Mm-hmm.  and opening the door for vulnerability, which I know is gonna come up today. But I think that it's just really important to note that the level of penetration is gonna be very, very different depending on how you're interacting with these other people.

And I really think. People really should find an opportunity to join a club, you know join a gym. I'm trying to think of other things that I've done that aren't athletic. Well, you kinda like did good examples, but I don't think there are any, You, you beat me to the punch. I was gonna mention that. Oh, I'm sorry.

No, that's fine. Because I'm a member of S P I Pro, which is Smart Passive Income from Pat Flynn and anybody who's listening, who's kind of in the online business world has heard of Pat Flynn probably. So I'm part of his private community and that's. One of the primary reasons I joined that. Yes. You know, I'd like to get help with a few technical questions here and there as far as our podcast or whatever, but those are things I can search for on YouTube.

But that's very different than having, than building relationships with other people who are already doing what you want to do. And a lot of people in that community are really at a higher level than I'm at, or that we are at. You know, I've owned a business for a long time, but we've had a hiatus for over two years and now we're just sort of rebooting.

So in a way, even though I have experience, we're kind of newbies. Our business is extremely new. Mm-hmm.  And most of the people in that community are. Rocket and rolling. Like they're not part-timers. They're full-time in their business. Many of 'em making six figures and that kind of thing. And it's like, that's, that's the company I want to keep.

Yeah, totally. Cause that's where I want to be. It's not, it's not just a matter of like having exposure, but it's making it really tangible. I think about when I first joined a weightlifting team, I was the low lady on the totem pole. Mm-hmm. . And I remember lifting alongside at who at the time was the strongest female in the gym.

And I just remember being like, Damn, like, I wanna be like that. And I eventually did get there, It took me four or five years to do it. Mm-hmm. . But it was within that context, like it gave me someone to chase or someone to emulate. Mm-hmm. , you know, I studied the way that she would warm up. I paid attention to her composure on the platform.

And it's almost like your kind of. Like designating like a hero figure for yourself, but it's someone that you can actually meet. Like I definitely do have my athletic heroes out there. Mm-hmm. . But it's very unlikely that I'm gonna be able to interact with them and actually absorb. Some of their characteristics, like I was saying with my coworker.

Right. You know, she's incredibly animated, talks with her hands and like, makes lots of jokes and things like that I'm doing right now with my hands, but I, that's not something that I was doing for a really long time. But now that I'm spending time with people who are more animated very regularly, it's allowing me to do that too.

Yeah. And I wouldn't say it's like a copycat thing, but it's kind of like what is it? Kind of like epigenetics almost. Mm-hmm.  where there are characteristics that are predisposed in us and just depending on our context, those things can be pronounced. Yeah. And so I think being really thoughtful about who you're spending your time with.

That is major. That's, it is so critical to, if you have a place you wanna go and getting there, like you gotta surround yourself with like-minded people. Mm-hmm. . And that's not to say, you know, politically that is something that people really frown upon because it's like echo chamber, blah, blah, blah.

Mm-hmm. . I definitely think there is that risk, but I also feel like a lot of times when we're talking about politics, it's always through social media, which I would not consider like sitting at a table with somebody. Those conversations will go very, very differently. Very. Yeah. And just to differentiate between politics or any other thing that might, people might disagree with.

Like, I have one of my closest friends in the world, we defer politically slightly like we can. , we, we can, we can hear each other. You know, it's not that we differ so dramatically that it's just like a resistance between us. Mm-hmm.  But we kind of understand where each other's coming from. He's a little more pragmatic as far as like, well, this is the world we live in.

So he's a little more involved in politics. I think my personal opinion is politics is a waste of time,  for most people. But  that doesn't, but we share a lot of values and we share a lot of he, he has a lot of qualities that I admire a lot. And so I think that you can get away from just finding people who are like, You're never gonna find perfect people, right?

Mm-hmm. . But you can find people who are open to, relating to you in certain ways. So let's say I have, I have friends who are both on the left and on the right, and I have a lot of friends who are anarchists and don't associate with, you know, with either one or identify, I guess with the right or left politically.

But the common thread in all of my friendships is that they're civil to each other, , and they're, and they're open-minded enough to have deep and meaningful conversations because surface level conversations are painful for me. I can't stand small talk. Mm-hmm. . And also when you disagree with somebody in a certain way it does not have to be antagonistic.

You know for sure it can be, it can be exploratory and curious like, how did you come to this conclusion? Why do you think that way? And you can also build an understanding of the person of like, Well, this is their background, This is the people who they spend a lot of time with. So I can understand how they would think in this certain way, even though it's different from the way I think.

And that's very different than, So I guess what I'm saying is I don't choose my friends based on their political ideology necessary necessarily, but I do, I would cut off people who are adversarial, antagonistic. That's because that your values aren't lining up. Like even though that you, you find yourself maybe in disagreement with some of these people.

It sounds like there is an underlying shared value of. You know, being able to discuss these things without contention or aggression. Yeah. Being rational is a big win for me.  . Well, I guess that kind of leads me to what I was just thinking is that you can also use relationships or, you know, these social contexts as a way of seeking out new values.

You know, cool thing about being an adult and not living with your parents anymore is that you really get to figure that out for yourself. Yeah. There's a lot that we grow up with that we are expected to live up to. And then when you are no longer in your family's home, you get to decide what your values are.

Mm-hmm.  And that what I is, what I think was so cool in my athletic life is that I was really, you know, I was in my early twenties really figuring all that out for the first time. And so I had come from working with a private coach. I also don't think that was the greatest format for me because not only did I fall in love with this coach as I have done a couple times over but it was incredibly expensive and the line between coach and friend was just very blurry from the start.

But I also didn't really have anything to, I was kind of just like doing my own thing when I, I've mentioned in another podcast that my first weight lifting me, I didn't realize that I was competing against other people. , Right. My whole athletic world was like in a vacuum. Mm-hmm. . And so I didn't realize that I, I am a part of a sport.

I'm a part of this like bigger conversation. Mm-hmm. . And so as soon as I moved to Portland, which was probably only a year later, I was 23 when I moved to Portland, and I immediately looked for a weightlifting team. So I wanna circle this back around a little bit to like, ways of putting yourself in the, in good positions with the power of association.

First of all, this, this subject may seem like really surface level to a lot of people, but the reason I'd really love to drive it home is that it's one of those things where people hear it and they're like, Yeah, yeah. And then they don't change anything. And it is really, really powerful. I mean, it's, it's hard to overstate how powerful it is.

If you wanna make, Why do you think it's coming off a surface level? Maybe cuz I've heard it for so long. Like, I join a gym. Well, PSA . No. It's just like you become, like the people you hang out with is the, Well, everybody knows the, if you hang with garbage, you stink like garbage. Yeah. Turn around. It's funny that parents will teach their kids this.

Like, I don't want you hanging out with that kid. He's a bad influence on you. And, but they don't necessarily filter out their own friends in the same.  dramatic way of like, I don't wanna hang out with this person cuz they're a bad influence on me. Cuz they, like I said, they think they're above it and so I just, I think that sometimes this can be the type of concept that people on the surface will just accept as being true, but deep down they don't want to integrate it because it means that they might have to close some people out of their lives.

For sure. I mean, that is a really good reason to be resistant to it. Yeah. I mean it's for better or for worse for sure. I can see that that would be something that people overlook all the time because it really requires you to take a look at who you're spending your time with. And I know I've always been really critical of myself for ending relationships, like full stop.

I always found it to be really harsh. Mm-hmm.  and that was definitely an example from my parents that was set for me. And so it seemed like a really natural thing to do. . You know, when I was a high schooler, I was in with a crowd that was like really into partying and drugs. And when I, I guess when I changed high schools or maybe when I moved on to college, I really just cut ties with all those folks because I had not only just seen another way of living that was better for me, better for my relationship with my mom, better for my health better for my self-esteem.

It really made me realize like, I don't really have anything else in common with these people other than partying or they don't know who I am unless I'm under the influence of some sort of substance. Mm-hmm. . So at times I think like, okay, maybe I didn't give these people enough credit, but this is also many years down the road that I'm thinking this way.

Mm-hmm.  at the time, it felt like I had to make it hard. Break with a lot of these people mm-hmm.  In order to become the person that I wanted to. And I mean, I guess you could say that that's necessary sometimes, but I also think that there is maybe a more like gradual way of setting boundaries that like, is just not something I'm really well versed in.

I'd like to be though. Yeah. Cause it hurts to be cut out, you know? Yeah. I don't wanna hang out with you because I think you're a bad influence. Like Yeah. What my, I, my daughter, I'm so proud of my youngest daughter for this. I'll just go ahead and kind of tell a story owner. She, she learned this lesson very early in her life, and I'm not sure exactly how she absorbed this to such a dramatic degree, but she just saw the association very quickly of when I hang out with this person, I get in trouble.

How old was. . I mean, the first time this happened, she was like six. Hmm. She's really, she did this two times that I can think of that were very like dramatic where she would look her friend in her in the eye and say, I don't wanna hang out with you anymore because you're a bad influence on me. And this was not coming from me or her mom.

This was just, she saw the, she saw the association that happened between hanging out with this person and then feeling bad about herself or getting in trouble or, you know, whatever it was. And so she actually, I mean, I just, it's amazing to me because I don't know many people of any age. Mm-hmm.  of any maturity who have.

The fortitude to stand face to face with somebody and say, When we hang out, I'm not better for it. So I don't want to hang out with you anymore.  like, Whoa. Well, it's almost like she has a really strong will or just a strong self preservation. I'm not quite sure exactly where it comes from. I'd love to ask her.

Mm-hmm. . But just having known her for the last, what, like four years now she's just very in tune with herself. You know, she doesn't seem to subscribe to a lot of noise. Or I don't know. She always just seems very much herself in any given context where I feel like I can see it because I have not been that person, especially at her age.

I was so. Into the idea of assimilation. Mm-hmm.  and like kind of becoming invisible, if you will, through blending in with other people. So it was always incredibly self-conscious and she just does not strike me as a self-conscious person. And that's why I think it would be really easy to be like, Hmm, I'm connecting these dots.

This isn't working for me. Moving on. Or something has to change. Yeah. She's also the wisest in the family. Yes, she is. , she's been called an old soul her whole life, but it's not just an old soul. There's plenty of like, I mean, does that just really associate with age and experience that idea of old soul? I know a lot of old souls who wouldn't do that.

I just feel it's a, a connotation of wisdom. Like she seems like this white old person, even though she's this young, beautiful person, . So when we were talking about The, you, you had mentioned a more gradual approach Yeah. To like changing a relationship. Yeah. And I've had some really real challenges with this too, even when it's mutual.

So I used to have this fringe group who we always had so much fun together and in interesting conversations and things, but we kind of got in a rut to where every time we were together we'd drink. And it wasn't Is this your like married friends group? Yeah. Yeah. So it was three couples and that sounds like so much fun.

It was a lot of fun. And we had a lot of fun together. And we did fun things and you know, sometimes we'd even go on trips together and that, you know, that kind of friend group never had one . And and but it's interesting where even though we could come to each other and all agree, like, you know what, I wanna cut down on drinking.

I just, you know, most of us weren't binging out of hand or anything like that. It's just. It's not good for you. I like to keep doing it all the time, and maybe we can find activities that we can do that don't involve drinking. And it was really bizarre because even though everyone in the group, all six people agreed that that was a good decision and something we wanted to pursue, it was extremely difficult to change the context of our relationship as a group.

Was that the basis of your relationship or did it just evolve? It just sort of evolved into that, but Okay. So it's kind of like my high school friends, right? Yeah. But it became such a pattern that it just, the friendships, the relationships themselves felt a little awkward if we all six tried to get together in a non-drinking context.

Oh yeah. It was so weird. Even though we were all in, in agreement. And then if you take the group dynamic out of it, So if just two of us would get together, then yeah, we could go do something without the drinking thing. We'd go for a walk and have a long talk. We could, you know, whatever, have some activity.

That didn't involve drinking and it wasn't so weird because it wasn't at the context of the group. Like it's just it's like an association thing that your brain does, I guess, where it's like, oh, these people are all present when these people are all present. We have wine. Is it Pablo? That's too, Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's tricky. It's different when you're talking about like, when I hang out with this group, like we always blank. I feel like when you're talking about drinking, like this is a whole different level when you're talking about any kind of substance that alters your personality mm-hmm.  or whatever you wanna call it.

It's just the rules change for sure. Rules really, really change. Yeah. But I've had a similar experience with like, just laughing it up and having really fun connections with people in the gym and then you meet 'em outside the gym and it's like, oh gosh, really awkward. . I, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can definitely attest to that.

But that's because we are different people when we're at the gym because we were on the job. We had to be, I surprised certain kind of people, which I would say are like attributes that we naturally possess, but it's a contextual thing, right? Yeah. And like we were the front of the class. We were showmen, we smart performative.

Yeah. Yeah. We were teachers, we for sure. It was definitely performative. And so running into folks at the grocery store is quite different. Yeah. Or like we've had people come visit us out here on the ranch since who have been former clients of mine, but like I don't really know how to relate to them outside the gym.

And the gym always happens to come up cuz that's my comfort zone and that. You know, I could talk about that all day, but I also kind of made it a point as a coach to never really attend, like the gym parties mm-hmm.  and things like that because I always felt like blurring that world might discredit me as a coach in a way especially if I felt the need to like overcompensate with alcohol to feel comfortable in those situations.

But when I was a gym member, I loved going to those parties. Those were so much fun. Yeah. I think it's just different when it's your job. That's a good point. Yeah. I've never been a part of a gym where it wasn't my job. Right. . I know. I wish you had cuz it's really, really fun. Yeah. And I always just really admired the coaches.

I thought that was the coolest club to be in. I would, I don't know if I'd still say that's true, but the gym that I was a part of as a member man, they just really had their shit straight. It was just a cool place to be. It attracted all sorts of really cool people. It definitely had its faults for sure, but as a young person I just aided up.

I thought it was the greatest thing in the world and those coaches were like heroes to me. Some of them still are. Yeah. Shout out to Megan McKinney. Ricky , coolest lady ever. , you know, I don't want to get overly tactical or formal with this podcast. It's always gonna be kind of raw and vulnerable and, and real.

But I do want to just. Make a delineation between the power of association and the accountability buddy, because I've seen that backfire so many times. So from a str, from a strategy standpoint, I just wanna point out that if you, if you're having a hard time getting into the gym and or. Being consistent with your fitness routine.

Even if you're working out at home or whatever, having one of your friends who's also not consistent, be an accountability buddy. Like, Oh, we're gonna do this together. And yeah, not a great choice. I have never seen it work. I've heard, I've heard of it working like hypothetically, theoretically, like in a book or on a podcast, but I have never in my life witnessed it actually work long term.

Oh, short term. It'll happen. But what happens is that person becomes an unaccountability buddy because they're like, you know, I'm just not feeling it today. Do you wanna just like, go thrifting instead and then, Oh my God, why'd you have to say thrifting then? That's, I leave by, Well, cuz I was trying to get away from the booze analogy cuz not everything's got it.

Not ev not like booze isn't the only distraction in life, but it only takes that one time that, that one time somebody suggests that the other person gives in. And then it's like, then they're unaccountability buddies. Like, have you had Unaccountability buddy friend person? No. Okay. Well, you're speaking from a coach's standpoint.

I'm, I can speak from both sides and I would say that that's not true. Okay. I had at Nike, two really good gal pals who were my personal training clients. I did like two on ones. I don't know if that doesn't make it eligible for what you're saying because they were accountable to me, but they, you know, they would have to pay upfront.

Right. I think there might have only been one time where just one of them had shown up. They always came. Gosh, they were the most fun to work with those two. Yeah. Because they were such good friends and they, you know, they're real friends, like outside of work and training with me which made the time together really, really fun.

But I know they like travel together. They do all kinds of fun things. But I think in that case, you being the coach for both of them was an extra. Accountability measure that they had basically said that took so kudos to them. So you think different if they like just decided like, let's go to the gym together.

Like, not a structured gym time, but, Right. Okay. Well, or walking, you know, or walking buddies. I've seen that happen to like, Oh, we're gonna start walking in the morning together. And, and then it just, it, it falls apart long. It only takes once, long term, it falls apart. Mm. So a lot of times it, it will get people going, but my, my recommendation is that if you want an accountability buddy or a group better, I think a group is better.

Find people who are already doing the thing you want to do. Mm-hmm.  not because you'll be rising to their pace. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. There's a lot. Peer pressure can be a, a really valuable tool. It's always looked at as some negative, like, Oh, well for a lot of us it's been very traumatic. Yeah. Or, well, I think the war on drugs in the 1980s was just like, just say no, You know?

It's like, Oh, peer pressure means people are trying to get you to do stuff you don't wanna do, or that's gonna kill you. Yeah. But in reality, you can use that as a tool because I, I'm really good at working out alone. Like, I push myself really hard. I've actually passed out once, so I was working out so hard.

Are you bragging about passing out Yes. ? No, but I'm, I'm only giving not a good measure either. I'm only giving some context because even though I consider myself somebody who really does know how to dig deep and push himself, it is nothing compared to being in a CrossFit class. Because when, especially as a coach, cuz I'm a freaking coach, I can't just be like dogging it.

Right. I can't not. Try . So when I'm in a class situation, that peer pressure is really powerful to motivate me to do, Oh, let's do one more rep and let's make it look good, cuz I can't look sloppy in front of everybody. You, I, I had pointed this out that your burpees looked so good the other day and you're like, well the camera is a good motivator for that.

Yes. Cuz I had decided to post a little bit of that workout. Mm-hmm. . It was a 25 minute, 25 minute am wrap, which we had discussed before we started the clock, that it was meant to be like a conver, like a challenging conversational pace. Yeah. And so I used one of my little breaks to like, set up the camera mm-hmm.

But yes, like I moved through nearly my entire set of burpees, which probably did not happen. The rest of that workout . But because you were filming it for Yeah. Everybody, Yeah. I was filming it. There was definitely pressure to perform. Like people are not gonna be that interested in watching me just like standing around a whole lot.

Yeah. Even though I really wanna push myself to be more transparent on social media. Mm-hmm. , I really want people to be like, along this ride with me of like getting back into shape. Yeah. Or getting into shape again. I'd like to say But yeah, I mean, it's easy to be on when the camera's on. Yeah. It's just pavlova and like you said.

Yeah. And it's the same, I think, in that group or friends dynamic. If you have people who are already at a higher level than you are in something, and it doesn't have to be fitness. Like, let's, the whole point of this podcast is like, you can art, you can take these things out of the fitness domain and say, Yeah, if you're gonna be a writer, then maybe you should try to get in a writing group.

Not of people who are also wanting to be a writer, but people who are, like, there are published authors in this group, there are, you know, instructors or whatever. Mm-hmm.  and it's, or like, Toastmasters is a great example of this for, for public speaking. Oh gosh, how terrifying. . So Toastmasters, I think one of the most valuable things about Toastmasters or similar organizations, it's not the education that you're gonna get while you're there, which is really valuable.

It's the association of getting up there and f. Practicing like you, you're not just not gonna do it because everybody Yeah. That's what you're there to do, right? You're there to practice public speaking. You're bringing me to my favorite part of this podcast. So yeah, I, I guess my, just to close out that thought is just if you want an accountability buddy or to make a change, I would try to not find other people who are wanting to make the same change.

I would try to find people who have already made that kind of change, cuz that's the power of association. They, that will rub off on you. Yeah. Well, building up from the bottom and creating momentum is just so hard. I mean, we talked about it a couple weeks back about how starting from a standstill super hard.

So if you're embarking on something new or whatever, and any, any realm I think already putting yourself in a position where there's already a culture that you can become a part of is really gonna be. Valuable in getting yourself going, but you were also saying like, with Toastmasters, you are gonna show up and you have to do it.

Like, that's just the way it works. Mm-hmm. , and one of the things that I put down as a note for this podcast that I think is so incredible about working in communities or working with teams is that you're kind of forced into a situation of like sink or swim. And no matter what you're doing, you're gonna experience both.

There's no like faking your way through when you are beginner at something, or even if you're not a beginner, you're always gonna be bumping against a ceiling that you're trying to push through, like lifting heavier weight, you're going to fail and you are doing that in front of other people. And there's something really incredible about not only having the support of the people who are around you in those moments, but they are also seeing you, you know, if you take the opportunity, picking yourself up and doing it again, or continuing to work.

I just had so much respect for so many of the people that I trained with because I saw them every single day. Mm-hmm.  of the week for hours. And they, you know, the weightlifting is not a sport that you get paid to do unless you are very, very highly ranked in the United States. And, you know, there's just like-minded people in the same room all wanting to better themselves, whether it's just physically or something deeper.

And seeing people day after day, putting in that kind of effort, you, it, it's very hard to have ass weightlifting. Mm-hmm. , you can do it , but. When you're around that energy with all those people doing it, you get inspired to push yourself. Like it's a good quality to fuck up sometimes. Like you're just seeing people at their very best and their very worst.

Yeah. And that's what I love so much about the sport is there's really nowhere to hide. Mm-hmm. , you are the only person on that platform in a competition. Everyone's eyes are on you and you make it or you miss it and you get sick shots to do it. And I just think that that is so much opportunity for such incredible growth in a lot of different ways, and being vulnerable in front of other people is like something as a society that we don't encourage.

Mm-hmm. . And that was always something as a young person that terrified me. You know, I think it's, it's given me so much in terms of just showing who I am and doing my best. And sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, but damn, like, To live your life without experiencing that. I can't even imagine.

Mm-hmm.  I did for a really long time. You know, I did not try for a very long time and I have gained so much having been able to do that. Yeah. That's a big thing. I'm, I'm very self-aware of . I've been sort of pontificating about certain aspects of myself that I would like to change or that I have been changing, but it would like to continue to improve on and for much of my life.

I think my laziness or procrastination and things like that in the past have been a really, a direct result of a type of insecurity. Mm-hmm.  in, I don't wanna say perfectionism cuz I, but maybe it is. But the point is, is that I would feel. Like if I haven't done something or haven't tried, if I didn't try, then I would not have the humiliation of failure.

Right. And yeah, it's avoidant, It kind of goes protecting yourself. Yeah. It kind of goes deeper than this though, cuz it's almost like I'm, I'm, I can really intellectualize something like to a very, very deep level. But if I haven't physically moved on it, then I have this sort of I don't know. I have this feeling like I've done something, but all I've done is think about it, you know, All I've done is put together this awesome plan or this business plan, or this investment, or this workout or this, this amazing thing.

You know, I'm like, I've got this plan and it's, it feels like I've done something, but having a plan to do something isn't doing anything right. And. I think sometimes I can, It was like a protective mechanism to avoid embarrassment by just not doing something. Yeah. And it sucks because you don't get anywhere in life doing that.

No. But it's a weird habit that formed at a very, very young age to avoid embarrassment at all costs. Like embarrassment was like my worst nightmare. You and I have that in common. So, Yeah. So much. And I think really the only antidote to that is to change your values and you can't really change your values without doing anything.

So to give you an example this even came up today. You and I were lifting and I had you record every single lift. Mm-hmm.  Today just to, I don't know. I didn't really have a good reason other than like to be thorough, but that's, that's fun for me, by the way. Good. I'm glad. I feel like I'm just like shoving the phone in your.

Film those, please. I don't even know if I say please, but that's how I remember it in my mind. Anyway, so you give me the phone back after the first lift, it's a double for, you know, warmup set on snatch, and I'm like, Fuck this outfit. I look kind of fat in this outfit. And I was not super excited about posting it, but my desire to show my effort is higher than my embarrassment of looking fat on camera.

That's great. But that only is because I have found a, a mechanism or I've found something that is more important to me than, you know, the alternative, which is like to not try and to not experience it. Mm-hmm. , you know, and that's, I mean, you probably already know everybody who's listening that like weightlifting is the most important thing to me in the world because of so many things that I've learned.

It has changed my life in so many ways. And you know, we're talking about it now here on a podcast like this is, this is like the magic that I want to give others as a coach. It's like you can change your brain, you can change the way you see yourself. Mm-hmm.  by using a sport or using something else.

Mm-hmm. . And it's a matter of like pulling the right kind of structure, the right context, the right support. Mm-hmm.  To really put some of your demons to rest. Yeah. And looking fat has stopped me from doing so many things in my life. It's disgusting to think about how long that list is. But, you know, I lean into weightlifting because it doesn't make me feel fat, makes me feel strong as fuck , you know, like I would rather be that person.

Yeah. That's awesome. I think so too. I love you. Thank you. . . Yeah, I think that training, physical training can be such a lever as a tool to change so many things in your life. And I think part of, part of my passion for this book that we're writing in this podcast that's leading up to it is that I just want people to get more out of that.

There, there's so much to be leveraged that is not being leveraged by so many people because I think people put physical training into a box of yes, I know I'll be healthier if I do that. Yes, I could get leaner or stronger or whatever. And maybe some people even take it to another degree of like, I can feel a better sense of accomplishment and oh, it improves my mood for the day.

And all these things are like direct results of training. But there's also so many. Lessons you can take from that. I, I always referred to my gym as a Petri dish. It's like, this is like a little science experiment we can do here in the gym that can be applied to so many other aspects of our lives. And I think you just brought up a really beautiful point of, you know, finding something if you're insecure about it, or is a weakness a being vulnerable.

Like really offering yourself up, like, this is the truth. Yeah. This is my truth, this is who I am. And B, finding something that is more important to you than that insecurity. Yeah. Like, well, because those in insecurities can run our lives. Yeah, they really can. But I think a lot of people try to get rid of things like that in their life by just stuffing it down or getting rid of it or working on it.

But maybe you don't need to work on it. You just need to find something more valuable that's gonna take. Past it. Well, I wonder how integral it is that I was able to find value in my body, right? With my body being the very thing that I was ashamed of. Mm-hmm. . So I wonder if, if I had invested my time in something artistic, would it still combat the same thing?

Maybe not. Maybe not. Well, this is a specific context though. But if you look at like the movie The King speech, Uhhuh, like this guy stepped up, he had a severe speech impediment, but the duties that he felt he had to perform were more important than his embarrassment of not being able to speak. And so it's sort of a similar analogy I guess of, I mean, in that case, you know, he did have to work on the stuttering and all this, you know, he went to great efforts to work on things I, that movie Summer things specifically.

But I guess my point is, is that I. . Oftentimes we'll just try to approach a, a problem head on, like with body image issues, for instance, people will go to counseling for it. Mm-hmm. , it's like, well, maybe counseling isn't as effective as finding a driving passion or something that you feel is important to give to other people.

That's not selfish, but something you want to offer to other people that causes you, that sort of forces you to be vulnerable and accept your body in a, in a different light, you know? Well, it also can be more complicated though, because weightlifting did change my body. Eventually I got to a point where I was really stoked on it.

And I don't know,

I don't know. I, I definitely was able to notice a shift that I was more Focus on what my body could do rather than what it looked like. Mm-hmm. . And that's definitely something that I want to share with other people. That your body is really an instrument. Mm-hmm.  and you, and incredible things can come from it.

There's so much more to it than just what it looks like. Yeah. And I don't know, I think, I think my confidence would be much higher anyway, even if my body didn't change, if it still looked the same. Right. And I can only say that now because I'm training really hard now and I'm having a lot of fun with it and seeing progress.

And it's not where I want it to be visually or physically, but it's working hard and I love it for that. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. I think that's related to what I was trying to say. Like, there's a higher order of value. It's almost like Maslow's, you know, hierarchy or something where. , your aesthetics can cause insecurities, but there are other things that are more important than the aesthetics.

Yeah. Like your abilities or whatever, you know, something that you can offer to the world. Well, it's shifting your values too. That's what I mean. Yeah. I think that's where sport and CrossFit as a training modality can be really, really powerful because I've seen that happen where clients will come in and they say they want to lose weight.

Mm-hmm.  and sometimes they'll stick with me and sometimes they don't lose weight. Or I should say their body composition doesn't get to where they would like it to be. You know, most people make some progress somewhere, but Yeah. But with CrossFit, I've had people come to me who, they came to me wanting to lose weight, but three months in when they can do the first pull up that they've done since they were eight years old, it's like so empowering.

Mm-hmm.  that they, they feel themselves getting stronger and more capable. Yes. And they're sleeping better and like all these other things that are happening that it's like all of a sudden that goal of the weight loss is diminished in value For sure. Because they're so empowered in other areas. Yeah.

It's so much more potent. Yeah. And my body like never changed when I was in CrossFit. I mean it definitely developed muscle and but I was, in terms of size, it never really changed when I was doing CrossFit and that didn't matter to me cuz it was so much fun. Mm-hmm. , I had a lot of friends connected to it and yeah, there was a lot of shit that I could do that I couldn't do before.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and gaining new skills is a really empowering thing because it's like there's, this is something I couldn't do before and I can do it now. Like you're the CrossFit's. So fun cuz there's so many things Yeah. That you can put in your arsenal. Yeah. After some time there. Yeah. Yeah. But that is one reason that I got frustrated with it, is that there was just too much Yeah.

To get good at. It's endless. It is. Yeah. I think another value, you know, you had talked about seeing other people in the weight lifting and how it kind of pulled you along as far as the team, you know, you see them working hard, you see them failing and those kind of things. And that's really an important aspect of, of bonding with people.

Yeah. So this kind of works, I guess it's maybe a way of looking at this in a different light where the power of association can really change you, but. Shared struggle can also really change the relationship dynamic. People who see each other in a vulnerable light, see each other failing, see each other frustrated.

You know, working to a, a place that's really uncomfortable. , sometimes even tragic events. I mean, this is kind of a common thing with tragic events. And, and this is one reason why people who go to war together, they come home and there's a brotherhood in the people who are in the battle together.

Mm-hmm.  that is beyond what normal friendship can achieve and shared struggle. And that vulnerability, I think unlocks something in us, in our humanity that really helps us to connect with other people. Definitely. So I think this is another thing that can be carried over from this lesson of the group dynamic of fitness is to.

A be vulnerable enough to fail in front of other people  and, and push yourself, but also being able to recognize that in other people and then seeing what that does to your relationship dynamic. Definitely. Well, I would, I think it's just easy to lose sight all the time that other people around us struggle just like we do.

A lot of times we don't get to see that. And so when you do have shared experiences, there's just like a level of respect I think that you have for those people that you otherwise wouldn't tap into. Mm-hmm. . I mean, I think we should have respect for all people, but I think it's easy to forget that the person right next to me is like very likely having a shitty day or something like that.

You know, we forget and it's easy to take things really personally. Mm-hmm.  When it's kind of showing itself in crummy ways. But like, there's a bond that I have with my sister because she's the product of the same divorce, of the same parents. And you know, you and I are. You know, on this financial journey together, and both have come from the same number of like astronomical debt and mm-hmm.

being almost done with that. Like, there's something that you and I can respect in one another or recognize in one another because we've been on that same path all along. So when we triumph, like we triumph really hard, you know, it's really exciting cuz it's something that we did together. Yeah. I think that's helped us bond very quickly too when we first met each other.

Is that that level of vulnerability that we offered up to each other? Oh yeah. Just being super honest, I don't know anybody who has shared their bank account with their partner as quickly as you and I did. Yeah. People thought we were crazy. Oh yeah. And not just, Well, we kind of needed each other financially.

Yeah. Not just our bank accounts too. But I remember, I remember this thing you and I used to do when we were kind of getting to know each other. What's that? Where we would be, and it's not that we wouldn't do it now, it's just that we know so much about each other. It doesn't. Okay. We're not, we're not in this exploratory phase.

Ooh. I have an idea of what it might be. Well, a lot of times we would come to each other with an insecurity uhhuh, and we would, we would preface it by saying, I know this is irrational. What is your irrational fear? Yes. Yeah. And it's not, it's, this is not Ira like rational. And maybe my feeling this just has to do with more past experiences or traumas than you, But I'm gonna be honest with you, when you do this, it makes me feel this way, or I feel this way, or, you know, And we would just come to each other with this sort of like, I'm, I'm not strong in this moment.

Yeah. And yeah, we would totally think the worst and share what that was. Yeah. But rather than looking, rather than, even though we felt weak in that moment, rather than the other person looking at it as a weakness, it just really helped to bond us in, in, in trust and  admiration that's being on the platform, baby.

Yeah. . So I think that's definitely a way that this sort of like shared struggle of panting next to somebody in CrossFit is sort of like a, a different version of that. Like, look, look, I'm a vulnerable human too. Like I'm struggling. And that's why, that's why I was gonna say maybe I didn't always have that experience, but No, no, but I'm just saying overall things like CrossFit has looked at like a cult a lot of times and a lot of times reason it's culty is that people are in this shared suffering, shared vulnerability.

It's chosen, Shared suffering. Yeah. Yeah. But it's still, But they're pushing themselves. It creates these bonds that people on the outside look at it and as like, you guys are weird. You know, like, cuz they don't understand, they don't understand the bonding aspect of it. It's not that, it's not that we're sharing a hobby.

It's not that we all think that keeping pull-ups are cool, it's that we're seeing each other suffer and encouraging each other through it, and that creates a different kind of bond than the technical aspects of the training. That's interesting that you're bringing it up because, or what you're bringing up is making me think of is, so I became a weight lifter while I was still a CrossFit coach, and I had a lot, you know, I worked at many gyms as I have mentioned, and I had a lot of clients like asking me like, Do you wanna do this competition?

Are you gonna do MER for, like, are you gonna do all these kind of like group things? And I'd always say no because. At the time I was like, This is gonna fuck with my training. You know, this is not something that I'm doing regularly. And it really put like a barrier between me and my clients. Kind of like the party thing.

Like not wanting to go to those parties and like be myself as anyone but a coach around them. So I think that that definitely was a hindrance in a lot of ways for me to have deeper connections with my clientele. You know, I'm, I'm sure I would do it the same way again if I had the chance, you know, I was taking training very seriously and didn't want to deviate and it's all periodized and it's very down to the rep.

You know, CrossFit has a lot more what's the word? A lot more fluidity, I guess, and a lot more variables to consider where weightlifting is very precise. Mm-hmm. . And that's what I liked about it. And so I guess it's just making me think of like, Oh, it makes a lot of sense. Like why those connections aren't deeper.

Because I kind of, I wasn't in that struggle with them. Right. I was kind of like ivory tower coach. Mm-hmm. , right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've, I think all experienced that a lot with coaches, teachers, mentors, preachers, like people who are at a different level, but not in your sort of shared experience.

I think they need to remember that, like, been there, done that  like, yeah, this teacher's, mentors, like they've been there already sometimes. Yeah. But I, I don't think that that can change the dynamic that we're talking about, though, even recognizing that, oh, that, that coach has been through it. But if you're not sharing that experience, then you're not gonna be as close as people who are sharing the experience together.

There have been. A lot of times where I have thought about as a coach, like if the workout was simple enough, then maybe I would just hop in with them. Mm-hmm. , And I think I've done that a couple of times. I can vaguely remember doing that for my very, very early classes. That would be a pretty like, consistent group of people.

And so if I, if I kind of trusted everyone in the room to perform safely, then I'd be like, Yeah, I'll help in with them. Mm-hmm. . I do think that that's really valuable, but it's definitely not the like default model. Yeah. Coaches are scanning the room, They're kind of like lifeguards or we need to be a coach, if you will.

Yeah. Coach. Yeah. Yeah. I had a rule at my gym that coaches were not allowed to work out during their own class, but can you elaborate like what your thought process was for that? Well, because if you're working out, you can't coach. I mean, you can't, you can't keep your eyes on everybody if you're working out.

especially in that context. If it's weightlifting, it's a little different. Or even a weightlifting day in a CrossFit class, because you can do your reps. Yeah. And then while everybody else is sort of resting, and then while you're resting, you can be, you can coach and you can be involved. But I've also fucked myself up doing that

What do you mean? Well, because going back to full circle, the deadlift, the, Yeah. My back I was actually leading a, an event CrossFit total event. So we're doing fun, a max, a max effort, trying to find a one rep max on a standing press, a deadlift and a back squat. And I had family there and there were people who are like, families would show up of gym members, you know?

That's so cool. Like, it was almost like a real weightlifting event or a power lifting. . So we had little thanks for saying that. Yeah, . We had people sort of on benches, like an audience Oh, to, so to speak, so fun. But it was a really small and intimate gym as well, so it was kinda like crowded and I was getting hall hyped up and some of the members and family members were like, You should jump in.

You should do it too. You should do it too. But I had been, I had been working on scorecards and set up and all this stuff while they were warming up. Right? Yeah. And then I jumped in. And so even though I had eyes on everybody as they were moving, I wasn't taking care of myself. So if you're watching people do the reps, you're not, your body isn't like internalizing, it's weird as, as warming up

Is that, is that kind of like the study that we were referring to earlier? Not good enough? I guess not. So that, that set me back for a couple years. Did you also walk that one off or did you like, ah, like. Did you show that you were injured in that moment? I did, and I stopped in that moment, but unfortunately over the following weeks I was, you know, out of frustration trying to work through it in ways that weren't good.

And so I continued to sort of push through, push through in, in bad ways. You know, we just, we talked about working out while you're injured, it's good, but you also have to be smart about it. You have do the right kind of exercise. Yeah, yeah, too. There's definitely something that everyone can do with the exception of like, you're in the hospital and cannot get up

But for low back I'd suggest swimming with sha You know how I feel about you swimming? Yeah. I'm a sinker. I think you'd be so great at it though. Your build is so spot f and on. But people say that about running too. Like, Oh, you're, you have long legs, you should be a good runner. Oh, your dad was a great runner and.

He's also a sinker though. You know, we were on our like a hundred meter runs the other day and I had said that I was really committed to my running form and it was oddly getting easier as the workout progressed. Mm-hmm. . And every once in a while, like it's a very rare occasion, but every once in a while I'll have the thought, like I could really do this.

Like I could go run for fun . And I've only really attempted that like two or three times in my whole life and never really made it that far. However, never was it with great form. I could maybe do it now. Especially that we live in a place that has a lot of dirt roads. I feel like that could be really fun or like better on my joints and stuff.

But everything I know about running and like just running, it's not good for you. Yeah, I believe the statistic used to be that it was the highest injury rate of any sport. Damn. Was just running. Yeah. It's a shame. The jogging craze of the seventies and eighties really ed a lot of people up because they don't realize that when you're running or jogging it's looked at as such a natural thing that humans should be able to do that they don't realize that you can be deconditioned to it.

Cuz all you've done is sit in cars and in office and on the couch and all this, and so then they try to go run and they don't realize that when you're running. Even a hundred meters could be 500 repetitions. If you looked at every step as a repetition, like you wouldn't get on a bench press for the first time ever and try to do 500 reps Right.

But then you'll go try to run a mile cuz one mile doesn't sound like too much. Hmm. Yeah. That's my theory behind it. Plus that makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought of it that way. Yeah. Plus the, the, the form thing like you're talking about, I think people think because it's a natural thing that humans should do, they forget that the shoes that they've been wearing their whole lives that are clothes that they wear, the seated positions that we have, they all are modern society has literally changed the shape of your body.

Yeah. So you're not running correctly. . Yeah. And yeah, it's fun to be able to coach people out of that, but there's a lack of awareness around it For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Should we wrap up? I think so. That was a fun one. We're kind of getting divergent. Mm. Maybe. But that was fun. It was. Yeah. Well, if anybody has something to contribute to this conversation we're always happy to hear from you.

Head over to live all your life.com and drop us a message. We'd love to hear from you. And I'm gonna work on putting up a an audio version of being able to leave us a message. So if you'd like to actually be Oh, that would be fun. Yeah. We can actually put you on the podcast you and hear your voice.

Yeah. You can have something to contribute or ask a question or whatever, and I would love that. So get involved and today on the power of Association, I'm sure there's things we. Hit on, so, Oh, it'll come up in another episode. I'm sured. Love to hear from you. Yeah. Anything else you wanna say? I don't think so.

All right. I guess we'll sign off and we'll see you in a week or so.

This episode was produced by Tali Zari and Cody Limbal. Check out our writing, coaching services and home studying adventures at live all your life.com. For show notes, resources mentioned, or to submit a question or contribution, click on the podcast tab.